Feedback and you - a word that has to be said.

[Dr Brobotnik]

Alright. So, post-patch I see a lot of complaints about two things: the current state of the ship balance, and the new minotaur class weapon. I have something to say about both of these, and I will do so in the feedback board. I am going to say something even more important here.

Very rarely has anything been balanced right after it comes out of the forge, yeah? Starcraft 2 took years to get balanced across the board. Warriors were once grossly overpowered in World of Warcraft.
This sort of thing HAPPENS. Even tripple A game developers does it. The point is, give the developers some actual feedback and see what happens. If things still seem bad in the future, then that's when I'll take down my flag and declare all hope lost. Until then, I am not going to quit Guns of Icarus over a problem that happens to everyone, and I'm going to try to actually have a smidge of faith in this game, and it's developers. They're doing what they can with limited resources, but they don't actually play the game as much as we do. But they have the power to change things, and we don't. That's why we need to give them CONSTRUCTIVE feedback. So please, understand that nothing is ever good without a few redesigns, and have patience.

[Squidslinger Gilder]

Join the dev app group before you say anymore...you'll know then.

[Hoja Lateralus]

Well, it's reasonable to expect that a new feature should be balanced. It's not like Devs have dedicated people who will test everything for free, right? Right? I assume that they were under some kind of pressure to release this patch fast, whether it's decreasing game population or money issues in Muse or something else is a matter of speculation and debate.
Trust me that Muse gets the best feedback we can give them. Sometimes we get a bit emotional (especially when taking a first glance) but then we cool off, murmur some curses and get to work.
We all have faith, but there's only so much you can do when almost whole community advise one thing and Devs do the other.

[Dr Brobotnik]

Well, it's reasonable to expect that a new feature should be balanced. It's not like Devs have dedicated people who will test everything for free, right? Right? I assume that they were under some kind of pressure to release this patch fast, whether it's decreasing game population or money issues in Muse or something else is a matter of speculation and debate.
Trust me that Muse gets the best feedback we can give them. Sometimes we get a bit emotional (especially when taking a first glance) but then we cool off, murmur some curses and get to work.
We all have faith, but there's only so much you can do when almost whole community advise one thing and Devs do the other.

Balanced, yes, but not right away. It is very rare nerfs/buffs and or new content altogether to be balanced right away.

[DJ Logicalia]

Updates go into the dev app a month or two before they go into the main game so players can test them. Why would they put unbalanced features into the game if they have the ability to test them before they do?

[Omniraptor]

To be fair the pyra hull nerf was not criticized widely enough in dev app forum, maybe two or three people brought it up. I don't blame muse for not listening but hope they hotfix.

[Squidslinger Gilder]

Yeah it was a little overlooked. I remember a couple of people saying the Pyra felt good while many others, and myself, said don't do it. Squid was similar with the hull HP buff. Don't think one person said it was a good thing. But it got overshadowed in someways.

Trouble was, so much testing focused on Minotaur or Stamina, ship fixes I think were forgotten. Maybe Muse is right and the squid was never changed...I dunno. The numbers were hidden till after tests were over. I just know when Stamina was tossed in, the stock movement felt different. I'd then fly with stamina almost always pressed down just to make up for things.  Common agreement then was, why not just buff the ships up to stamina levels and don't even bother with stamina? Maybe we'll see more improvements down the line? Dunno.

It is a shame we didn't get Stamina in the end but it just wasn't ready. Needed work. Everything else...always next patch. As far as Minotaur goes, the initial build of it was very weak and there was a consensus for it to be buffed. People are crying that it is OP but honestly, it isn't. Muse did right with it and it is right where it needs to be. Just need to adjust the rest of the game for it.

[Skrimskraw]

I want to adress the dev app first:

The majority of the feedback that musegames receive from the dev app is completely useless. people will write feedback based un untested concerns rather than actually testing things proper. This has led to Muse almost ignoring most of the feedback they get, in its right I understand that they would since its useless feedback. But the blame is with Muse games in the end. They have been unable to set up a proper testing group with indepth testing, analyzis etc. All feedback is unorganized and its just a f***ing mess to read or participate in.

second:
People complaining about the new gun being overpowered needs to dry their eyes and learn to use terrain and maneuvre proper.
the players who charge in full speed and complain about being turned by the gun needs to learn how to use moonshine. Moonshine is an anchor tool and can stop you from turning with even less than 1 second of moonshine.
Just counter it with artemis or other gun destroying guns, its not that hard.

third and most relevant:
The pyra hull nerf.
Oh boy will this change rile up the community
Before you read my opinion on this, just know that I used to be part of MUSE games as an "intern" moderator and that I personally told the devs about my concern for pyramidion dominating competitive. I used to fly pyramidion a lot in competitive and think it was too strong. If I remember Thomas also voiced concern over its superiority, but I cant remember was a long time ago.
as it is now pyramidion has left the "first pick" position, and is now in the second row of ships you would bring. But that doesnt mean players or even competitive teams will stop using it. The pyra still excells in balloon protection, ramming and even trifecta with certain guns. But this patch might have killed the double pyramidion tactics we see sometimes. 2 pyramidion charging in and wrecking everything in seconds.
Pyramidion will still work very well with other ships, specially goldfish and mobula.
I tested pyramidion vs 2 experienced pilots with goldie and spire and we won 5-4 and it felt like things were better balanced now than before the patch - the pyra can no longer carelessly charge an enemy without being in danger of dying, but the pyra still works superiorly when flanking.

One other thing that has been bugging me for a long time. Pyra are picked as much as all the other ships combined, and it got really boring in the end... Do we want to keep playing the same meta for 12 months? Or is it more interesting to keep searching for new metas that work in new balance patches?
I think the latter, but thats just my opinion.

[Kamoba]

But Skrimskraw!!! Sky Slicer!!! 

I've not been here 12 months of the Pyra domination! I've only been here just over 3 months! (almost 4 I think) and my favourite ship is now sooo squishy!

But I sit at the middle of the fence in this, although I have a great love for the pyramidion I also have a disdain for the metamidion and just how often it was used... thus I used Gatling Artemis, and trained my friends to be great Artemis gunners for the sole purpose of countering the metamidion!, what did we acheive? a build which still has potential to hold it's own against any ship, however the nerf means it is a much more risky build to use now... before in competitive the pyramidion would give the ability to mis-step once and still survive another engagement, but now there is no room for a single wrong step...

Still for now we can enjoy skies which see more spires, more squids, more galleons and more junkers.

[BlackenedPies]

After playing more of the patch I have to agree with skrim.

The pyra is still viable and you need to play it safer. It'll encourage people to play more of the other ships instead of pyra vs everything. If anything it makes the Sky Slicer better against other pyras now.

People will get better at countering the Minotaur. I think the projectile speed or range could be decreased, but overall it seems like a fair defensive weapon. 1800m @ 800 m/s is a bit much. I like the up arcs to deal with blender fish, but I'm sure it doesn't need 45 degrees down.

[Dementio]

Because the community "uses the Pyramidion more than some other ships" should not be the primary reason for nerfing it, but that is just my opinion and I am not a game developer.

At least it is nice to see that my Mobula will kill Pyramidions even faster now, as useless as it is.

"But manouverbility and flanking!", to that I just have to say that any ship will have a pretty good chance to win when it is behind another ship. Other ships are probably better than the Pyramidion when you want to flank or just bait from a longer range, in which case the Pyramidion is limited to only one range, making other ships superior. The Pyramidion does not excel in anything, in my opinion.

[Kamoba]

After playing more of the patch I have to agree with skrim.

The pyra is still viable and you need to play it safer. It'll encourage people to play more of the other ships instead of pyra vs everything. If anything it makes the Sky Slicer better against other pyras now.

People will get better at countering the Minotaur. I think the projectile speed or range could be decreased, but overall it seems like a fair defensive weapon. 1800m @ 800 m/s is a bit much. I like the up arcs to deal with blender fish, but I'm sure it doesn't need 45 degrees down.

Yes the Sky Slicer will excel against other pyramidions, it'll still hold a great fight against blender fish, hwacha fish and lumber fish, it should survive against hwacha galleons, carro galleons and bullfish.
So it will not be fully retired, I've yet to test its effectiveness against new squid, but I worry against bifecter gat banshee, one missed shot from the Artemis will mean high chance of loss.
Junkers are more scary so may have to experiment more with carro art Gatling for more disables and balloon pops against the Junker.
Mobula will excel against pyra, lumber galleons will be less countered but assuming piloted right Hades Artemis Artemis should still hold a good chance... With more Hades training...

I just need to dry my tears and push my crew harder

Because the community "uses the Pyramidion more than some other ships" should not be the primary reason for nerfing it, but that is just my opinion and I am not a game developer.

At least it is nice to see that my Mobula will kill Pyramidions even faster now, as useless as it is.

"But manouverbility and flanking!", to that I just have to say that any ship will have a pretty good chance to win when it is behind another ship. Other ships are probably better than the Pyramidion when you want to flank or just bait from a longer range, in which case the Pyramidion is limited to only one range, making other ships superior. The Pyramidion does not excel in anything, in my opinion.

But I still agree with Daniel, over-nerfing something to increase the use of other ships does seem a bit much.
Just the engine nerf alone would (eventually) see the pyra less used as players struggle to keep pace with their allies.

On the flip side of the coin, since the last patch seeing more spires, more galleons and more squids in all match types..

But squid does feel like a new meta now which is an odd change of events!

[Patched Wizard]

I agree that Muse needs to hand pick from the community a dedicated team of testers who can put the game through the stress test and dissect what works, what doesn't work, and coherently explain why.
By opening up the testing pool to everyone you cloud any discussion with opinions from testers who confuse "what I want" with "what the game needs."

Just because your tried and true tactics have been rendered redundant doesn't prove that a patch has broken the game. I might only mean that you need to grow yourself and develop new strategies.

[Kamoba]

I agree that Muse needs to hand pick from the community a dedicated team of testers who can put the game through the stress test and dissect what works, what doesn't work, and coherently explain why.
By opening up the testing pool to everyone you cloud any discussion with opinions from testers who confuse "what I want" with "what the game needs."

Just because your tried and true tactics have been rendered redundant doesn't prove that a patch has broken the game. I might only mean that you need to grow yourself and develop new strategies.

I'm.going to email this to muse :p

[Dutch Vanya]

Unfortunately with a community this small, the only way to get proper testing is to release a feature in the full game.