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Ship Selection Phase Idea (Hephaestus Challenge Season 2)

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nanoduckling:
I think I understand why this idea is being put forward: The metamidion

Maybe it is just me but I noticed that the breakdown of responses here is basically between those who sparingly use the more meta builds (especially the metamidion), and those who use them often and are very well practised at them (I'm counting the Duck junker as meta here). Some teams have as a strength their experience and skill with traditional or specific load outs, others do not. That said the responses on the 'not liking the meta' side are also pretty mixed, but everyone who uses the meta lots looks to me to be on one side of this discussion.

You cant avoid the fact that a system designed specifically to reduce the use of the meta specifically weakens some teams that are well practised in it. This system would have been brutal for the Ducks for instance back when 'junker is OP' was a thing.

My initial reaction is to love the rule change because I hate flying the metamidion, and I hate flying against it. Unfortunately reflection tells me this is a bad idea. For one thing it solves a problem that will be reduced in the next patch (that the pyra is still a bit too strong). For another it upsets the balance of teams away from the status quo, and not by patching the game to correct the slight imbalance, but by trying to 'patch' the meta-game. For a specific 'break the meta' tournament that would be great, for Hephaestus I think this will reduce the motivation of some teams to play as it stacks the deck against them unfairly.

That said I'm not opposed to a pick system in the abstract, because there are things wrong with the current competitive ship picking mini-game. There are teams who will keep picking hard counters every time the opposition changes until everyone ends up with one metamidion and some other ship and that is boring. I just don't think a system where we block ships is a good solution.

Skrimskraw:
the metamidion is already hard countered by teams who put effort into doing it.

is it really the organizers job to help teams worka gainst certain ships and builds, isnt it the teams themselves that should be practicing and learning how to counter things?

No the biggest problem is the carronade fish who counters 80% of everything in the game, only being unable to counter the pyramidion.
The teams will pick what works when its high competitive. Muse are the ones who need to rebalance the game in order to change this, but try reading the dev app forums, there is a storm everytime something gets proposed ;) Same here with competitive rules.

as nanoduckling says, what the hell would the ducks have done if junker would be banned, the ship wasnt overpowered in any sense, they just knew how to fly it properly, and it should be the teams that work towards beating that and not a system of bans where there are 7 choices.

Ruairi:
The main issue with ship choice in the lobby stage is the prospect of being "hard countered" by the opposition. Hence I will suggest as others have in the past, the possibility of a "blind pick/set up" where ships are sent by the Teams Representatives to the nominated "officials" running the event.

Now the problem with the blind picking system which has been stated in the past is that: "Well if nobody knows what the enemy is taking, then most people will feel confined to the meta."

I believe that this could be addressed if Teams knew in advance what maps they would be fighting on. This way they will base their strategy on how they believe they can best play that map. As a result we are no longer playing the lobby "hard counter" game but instead the maps that are selected for the event to occur on.

The only question if this is to be implemented is "how much time do teams need to formulate a strategy for the map/s they'll be playing on?"

Mysterious Medic:
Uhh, if anyone's been paying attention to SCS or basically any other recent tournament it's pretty clear that there are so many ways to counter a metamidion. Many times it's the case that the team that doesn't bring the pyra wins nowadays. However, that's when it's a very well practiced team like Rydr or Spqr. I can see how newer teams might have a problem against metamidions but really I think the best way to progress as a team is knowing how to deal with different tactics, and that doesn't even mean you have to "lobby counter" but rather refine your play style to counter the other teams'.

In regards to pick order and banning, it makes me very nervous. Essentially, it would just further divide the skill gap in competitive as I see it. The only teams that would be so versatile as to not be affected by the ban are the top teams who have been playing the game forever. Newer teams will be forced to do things they're not comfortable with, and in the end it will just increase the chances of their failure. It seems to me that whoever made this ban thought that top teams only used metamidion or something, and this would put the top teams on par with the lower ones. However, that is simply not the case. Being on the Rydr team I can tell you we have practiced Mobula, Pyra, Junker, Galleon, Goldfish, and Lue even flew a squid at one point. SPQR have the same amount of versatility. Compare that with newer teams like Mad Hatters or WoD and it's clear that they have less room for things they are comfortable with. The thing is, as a new team starting out it makes perfectly legitimate sense to specialize because there is no way you'll be able to just get as much experience with every ship as the top teams. But if you specialize, you stand much more of a chance by having the same amount of experience with one ship.

As to the pick order? Meh. From what I can tell things just get more counter-y and I'm not a fan of the lobby counter game. You can implement it but I think it will just make people more wary of counters.

Puppy Fur:


Seems like an interesting idea. Having teams pick ships beforehand with notification of what map they will be on.

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