Main > General Discussion
AN OPEN LETTER: "Return to crew form or rematch?"
Enochh:
I really appreciate your replies
Some clarification:
--- Quote from: Extirminator on February 10, 2015, 10:12:01 am ---
While having low level players join in on other clans so they can play together and increase their skill level is a nice utopia,
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It's not an utopia, my clan just does it. And not only mine. I can bring you the SREP example, where players with different levels play together.
--- Quote from: Extirminator on February 10, 2015, 10:12:01 am ---
Another issue with this way of thinking is the assumption that all low levels, want to be associated with a clan that is not their "core-4-players-who-just-bought-their-4-pack", they wanna play with their friends, and until they don't develop any other friendship bonds in-game with other people, I honestly don't see a reason for them to want to join a foreign clan, never mind how active it is.
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They could play with their friend anyway, but staying in a bigger clan that can teach and help them too
--- Quote from: Extirminator on February 10, 2015, 10:12:01 am ---On the other side of the coin here you have the higher skilled players that are oriented with a clan already, that are basically being forced lower levels upon - No one asked them if they want to befriend the foreign people who you just added to their clan.
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Because this is the definition and the true meaning of being a community and being a clan :) . This is the problem i suppose, that so many "high level players" don't want to play with low levels, even if they are in their own clan, and i saw so many skilled players leave lobbies for that reason or even swapping team.
--- Quote from: Extirminator on February 10, 2015, 10:12:01 am ---Ultimately, The system for making new clans shouldn't be harder. It wouldn't stop new players from confiding into their small play groups, they will keep playing with those 4-core-players, only without the clan tag. While I agree "troll-clans" are annoying, the way to stop them wouldn't be to stop them from creating a clan, it would just constrict their level of customization and creativity in-game - they would still be trolling people I assure you. Also, if what you want is only a few core active clans that are available for people to join in on, what would be the requirements for a clan to be a "core clan"? What is it that makes a clan, in this new system you propose stick out and serve as a "core clan"? Is it the amount of players? activity? Commendations? Strong competitive base? because as I see it, there isn't a good way to classify a "core clan" as you call it - All clans deserve to exist.
I would say that if you are going for only a few "core clans" to be in existence, for the unified community, delete all the current clans, and make one clan for each faction. Which is sort of what adventure mode is gonna be. Btw, I think that this clan for each faction deal in skirmish mode is totally idiotic, but a cool idea for adventure mode.
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About the clans troll: if you make it more difficult to create the clan in comparison to the possible satisfaction being trolls, the troll clans would not exist
About the way to classify, we can help the Devs to find some reasonable selection criteria like some that you have gently already said.
My best regards
Enochh
HamsterIV:
Having been on the receiving end of clan pub stomps for a while, I sympathies with the other team walking out of the lobby when the other team looks stacked. Even before the clan system was implemented this was a problem, so I don't think making it harder for new players to form a clan will have much of an effect of things. In fact the bloat of newbie players forming their own clan makes taking on a team filled with clan tags less intimidating.
Hiding levels has gone a long way to helping matches get started because the newbies don't quit the lobby the moment higher levels join the game on the other side. However this means they quit after the victory screen when the levels are revealed. I agree having the game be a bit more transparent about what the teams for the next match will look like will go along way to keeping newbies from rage quitting in the presence of high level players.
KitKatKitty:
Ahhh match making and crew formation. I topic that has been widely debated.
This problem has become much more prominent every since match making/crew formation was implemented.
There is a minimum requirement of 5 players to keep a clan active. Granted that is a low number but even the largest clans started out small. If the clan does not meet the minimum number of players after 5 days they lose the tag.
Also, there are novice matches for a reason. It is to give new players an area to stay in order to learn the game and gain skills before being put into the larger community. The problem is that a large majority of novice players leave this area and join the normal queue which leads to the "complaining" that we all know too well.
Muse also probably did not think they needed to add another UI that stated that the lobbies are shuffle lobbies since all non-custom lobbies shuffle so it seems redundant, but I understand your point.
Now to address clans. Overall, most clans will try to prevent stacked lobbies or will do as you stated, rematch and then the lobby shuffles them. BUT there are some clans that for various reasons "stack" lobbies but not because they are being mean or stomping noobs. It could be because they want to try new pilots out together, or training for competition, or seeing how potential new members work with their clan, or and this isn't a bad reason, they simply just want to play with their friends. Just because players have been in a clan for a while or players have been in the game a while, doesn't take the basis of players wanting to play with friends. Most clan members become very close friends with each other and there are only certain times that certain players can play which leads to what many call "stacking".
--- Quote from: Extirminator on February 10, 2015, 10:12:01 am ---While having low level players join in on other clans so they can play together and increase their skill level is a nice utopia, you are forgetting that not all low levels are so invested in the game that they want to stay and sharpen their skills. See as proof the giant fluctuation of players between non-sale and sale times. The harsh truth is that most new players are just in for a few matches for a game they picked up on sale.
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This is such a true statement that it is painful. Many clan do not want to just add new players off a whim and will require that they play with the clan for a set period of time because they do not want those players that are only there for a couple weeks times then leaves the game. When you add a new member to your clan it takes time to introduce them to all the older members, introduce them to rules and how the clan rules, getting them set up on things like the clans steam group, any forum pages the clan may have and things like teamspeak or mumble. So many clans don't want to just continually add members if they are not going to stay.
--- Quote from: Extirminator on February 10, 2015, 10:12:01 am ---Ultimately, The system for making new clans shouldn't be harder. It wouldn't stop new players from confiding into their small play groups, they will keep playing with those 4-core-players, only without the clan tag. While I agree "troll-clans" are annoying, the way to stop them wouldn't be to stop them from creating a clan, it would just constrict their level of customization and creativity in-game - they would still be trolling people I assure you.
--- End quote ---
No matter how "hard" the clan system is there will always be trolls and a influx of trolls during sale time. This will never change. Period.
--- Quote from: Extirminator on February 10, 2015, 10:12:01 am ---Also, one last side note -
--- Quote from: Enochh on February 10, 2015, 08:47:18 am ---Often these high-level teams, after winning the game, instead of doing rematch, they go for 'return to crew form'.
--- End quote ---
From my point of view at least, every time there is a stacked lobby, the skilled side wants the rematch because of the scramble feature. However the low level side have already had enough of it, and they vote for returning to crew. Thus giving birth to an infinite ever lasting cycle of death and terror concluding the end of the glorious times of normal match list.
--- End quote ---
I agree with Extirminator on this one. The majority of the time it is the lower level players that return to crew form not the other way around.
Squidslinger Gilder:
I'm not going out of my way to make people who rage quit happy. In fact if I see known rage quitters I'll give them a real reason to rage quit. They do more damage to the community than any other player right now. Constantly leaving unless they're against complete idiots. Even if their ally is trying their hardest, they leave him to die in a 2v1 all so they can find an easier match.
No, I will not feed these people. TBB will not feed them either. When we run our practices, we do it together. Of course they'll see it as stacking lobbies but it is a clan's right to play together if they want to. If they don't like it, they can form their own clan or join us. Stop being lazy. If they don't want to do that, fine, ragequit, requeue...90% chance MM will throw them back into the lobby anyways. Either way I'll mine them, problem solved.
Richard LeMoon:
The most lobbies I see returning to crew form or emptying are the ones that have one high level ship, and three lower. The ship the high skilled played with votes to return to crew because they don't want to face the ship that just helped them win, and the other team knows they only have a 50% chance of getting on the same team as the skilled ship.
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