Author Topic: Steam Sales  (Read 76824 times)

Offline ShadedExalt

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Re: Steam Sales
« Reply #90 on: February 20, 2015, 12:59:27 pm »
I'm still in that sort of in-between stage.  I'm very much still learning, but I'd like to think I'm a decent crewmember/pilot.

I remember when I was spectating, following new playing friend, who was on your mobula.
Well... don't get me wrong, but you DO have many things to learn. ^^

I'm totally open to any constructive criticism anyone will give me.  Haven't flown the Mob much, still getting used to it.

Obligitory alibi, you know how it is.

Offline Schwalbe

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Re: Steam Sales
« Reply #91 on: February 20, 2015, 02:04:23 pm »
Well all I can tell you now, is that Duel At Dawn is not the natural enviornment for mobula.

And that bursts and lesmoks are not good for mercury. I mean, lesmoks have some use on merc, but when it comes to Dunes/Sepulcher. On Duel At Dawn it's damn useless.

I don't remember more in fact, welp. Sorry.

Offline BlackenedPies

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Re: Steam Sales
« Reply #92 on: February 20, 2015, 02:57:04 pm »
Well mobulas have good top turning speed and high turning momentum. They only lack turning acceleration so bringing claw on a mobula is not necessary. I always bring kerosene hydrogen and drogue chute. The mobula falls very fast which can help you escape on high maps like northern fjords but can also be deadly. I always have the engineers bring extinguishers. If you have one of them full time on a bottom gun then chem spray can be very useful but only if they use it. I also bring an extinguisher because the pilot can jump and hit the top gun from the helm position.

The mobula's good vertical can be used as a means of tanking, however if you're up against a specialized close range ship then tanking may be your only option. This is why I always have a mine launcher for the gunner, who brings a variation of mine ammo. For close range, a merc or hades may be useless. Depending on the circumstance I have the gunner jump to the left or right wing. The right wing is more efficient because the ladder is on the right side. I have the bottom right gun an artemis for the balloon engi.

I have found the mobula to be very effective against all ships except good squids. Blender fish can also be very dangerous. Mobulas are generally not for close range so your best bet is to kill them before they get close. The mine launcher is an important defensive weapon for me. The most common loadout is double artemis but sometimes it's not enough to kill. For my merc mob I use a left side flak gat with long range ammo (lesmok or heavy). The top gunner also has the option to jump down to the flak while the gat is going. Heatsink is the best medium close light flak ammo. But yeah the mobula is best ship counters everything so OP.

Sometimes it's best to neglect repairs and keep all guns shooting to overwhelm the enemy. The balloon is most important. Even with drogue chute you still drop. Don't forget to burn plenty of kerosene!
« Last Edit: February 20, 2015, 03:19:32 pm by BlackenedPies »

Offline MightyKeb

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Re: Steam Sales
« Reply #93 on: February 21, 2015, 06:52:57 am »
I have found the mobula to be very effective against all ships except good squids.

Lumberjack says hi



Offline Schwalbe

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Re: Steam Sales
« Reply #94 on: February 21, 2015, 08:44:32 am »
I have found the mobula to be very effective against all ships except good squids.

Lumberjack says hi


Mobula says: Oh, the projectile. Let me use vent/hydro. [dodges]

Offline BlackenedPies

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Re: Steam Sales
« Reply #95 on: February 21, 2015, 10:24:00 am »
I have found the mobula to be very effective against all ships except good squids.

Lumberjack says hi

I'm assuming you're talking about lumber fish because the other lumber ships are easily countered. You may be used to inexperienced mobulas not taking drogue chute.

Merc mobs can be very effective against lumberfish due to the long easy merc range and the 2 other guns. Getting disabled is a major problem for the fish. However, a good lumberfish can gain advantage over mobulas with a good lumber gunner.

The main problems for the fish are the difficulty to hit at long range (vs mobula's ease), and the mobula's mobility. When popped the mobula will use drogue chute and hydrogen after. If I know I'm gonna get my balloon popped I often burn it out (or almost out). It can take a very long time to kill a mobula with a lumberjack, even with an excellent gunner.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2015, 10:34:40 am by BlackenedPies »

Offline MightyKeb

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Re: Steam Sales
« Reply #96 on: February 21, 2015, 01:40:35 pm »
I have found the mobula to be very effective against all ships except good squids.

Lumberjack says hi

I'm assuming you're talking about lumber fish because the other lumber ships are easily countered. You may be used to inexperienced mobulas not taking drogue chute.

Merc mobs can be very effective against lumberfish due to the long easy merc range and the 2 other guns. Getting disabled is a major problem for the fish. However, a good lumberfish can gain advantage over mobulas with a good lumber gunner.

The main problems for the fish are the difficulty to hit at long range (vs mobula's ease), and the mobula's mobility. When popped the mobula will use drogue chute and hydrogen after. If I know I'm gonna get my balloon popped I often burn it out (or almost out). It can take a very long time to kill a mobula with a lumberjack, even with an excellent gunner.

You give the mobula alot of credit, to the point that you make it seem like a broken ship in itself. But what is it really bad at besides the obvious downsides? How can one exploit these downsides at all? And if it fares so well in pubs, why isnt it used as commonly as other ships?

I know a fair bit about the game, but you're the one who's been using mobula here, so if we can't discover a wide enough variety of plays and loadouts to render it ineffective and just drop cherry all over it muse might pull a nerf bat

Offline BlackenedPies

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Re: Steam Sales
« Reply #97 on: February 21, 2015, 02:08:35 pm »
The most common problem with the mobula is that it's not used correctly. For the longest time I didn't really know how to use it and was very hesitant to do so outside of practice mode. I am now comfortable to bring it against any ship on most maps. I have fought some lumberfish and it's never been a challenge 1v1. For reference I don't use the meta mobula loadouts (no merc double art).

Its weakness is close range, so a good squid can be deadly and force a mobula into full tank. Blender fishes can be effective but they must close distance very fast and avoid open engagements. I have a mine launcher on 2/3 of my mobulas to defend against close range ships (not particularly effective against squids though). The gunner's three ammos are for the mine. For the merc charged heatsink loch. For hades lesmok incendiary loch (hades is on 4 slot with double art trifecta, left art is on wing).

The mobula is the quintessential long range ship because it can use 3 light guns and has excellent vertical. The mobula doesn't need a nerf, but it can be very powerful. I am confident to use mobulas against any ship for long range maps. Close range is more difficult especially against good blender fish and squids. Squids and fish are both quite tanky. Pyramidions so soft.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2015, 02:18:18 pm by BlackenedPies »

Offline Kamoba

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Re: Steam Sales
« Reply #98 on: February 21, 2015, 02:28:55 pm »
The above post sums it up well but I just want to point out the biggest and most obvious weakness of the mobula, its sheer size and visibility, it is a very powerful ship and holds up very well against many ships, but is often the first ship spotted, and an easy target to aim at, if the pilot does not dodge or the crew fail to take its main components it fails, its an easy ship to loose with but a great ship to win with, with a solid crew and pilot.
But no ninja flank tactics with this ship, be prepared to be seen. :)

Offline MightyKeb

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Re: Steam Sales
« Reply #99 on: February 21, 2015, 02:53:45 pm »
The above post sums it up well but I just want to point out the biggest and most obvious weakness of the mobula, its sheer size and visibility, it is a very powerful ship and holds up very well against many ships, but is often the first ship spotted, and an easy target to aim at, if the pilot does not dodge or the crew fail to take its main components it fails, its an easy ship to loose with but a great ship to win with, with a solid crew and pilot.
But no ninja flank tactics with this ship, be prepared to be seen. :)

That means that in competetive it's almost a straight upgrade. It can't chase, but it makes up for that with the amount of possible deadly trifectas that'll probably shred you before you have a chance to escape.


And what's to say only a good squid can shake off the mobu? For one, I use squid often on pubs and I'm pretty decent with it. But on a wider scale, that is kinda unfair. Why should it take skillful use of an uncommon ship to counter the use of mobula? You can argue that its basically skill vs skill, but all mobula has to do is for the crew to have good placement and modest sniping prowess, along with some knowledge from the captain on his weapon arcs and appropriate positioning to his loadout's playstyle, which dont really take long to learn. Meanwhile, the squid relies solely on the pilot making right decisions/manouvers, which puts the pressure on him alone compared to a mobula's crew layout.I've played against Pies' mobula on dunes and he was tearing us pretty bad. I thought he hadthe match for sure when I decided to go for him one last time, and didnt realize my ally was actually focusing the mobula down with me while his junker was having trouble keeping up. Perhaps the mobula is by nature more prone to double teams than other ships, but really a competent pyra/goldfish/squid can easily react and exploit this situation.

In general, a sniping build on a mobula covers it's weaknesses. Inability to chase is replaced by a longer reach, bad turning is negated by the fact that the distance you create between the target from the start of the engagement gives you more than enough room to turn. The only reliable way to take down a sniper mobula with decent gunners and pilot seems to be through surprise attacks, which arent really reliable in their nature.

Offline BlackenedPies

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Re: Steam Sales
« Reply #100 on: February 21, 2015, 04:10:16 pm »
And what's to say only a good squid can shake off the mobu? For one, I use squid often on pubs and I'm pretty decent with it. But on a wider scale, that is kinda unfair. Why should it take skillful use of an uncommon ship to counter the use of mobula? You can argue that its basically skill vs skill, but all mobula has to do is for the crew to have good placement and modest sniping prowess, along with some knowledge from the captain on his weapon arcs and appropriate positioning to his loadout's playstyle, which dont really take long to learn. Meanwhile, the squid relies solely on the pilot making right decisions/manouvers, which puts the pressure on him alone compared to a mobula's crew layout.I've played against Pies' mobula on dunes and he was tearing us pretty bad. I thought he hadthe match for sure when I decided to go for him one last time, and didnt realize my ally was actually focusing the mobula down with me while his junker was having trouble keeping up. Perhaps the mobula is by nature more prone to double teams than other ships, but really a competent pyra/goldfish/squid can easily react and exploit this situation.

In a balanced match, all the ships are good. The squid is difficult not only for the pilot but also the crew. I find main engineer on squid the most difficult and the most enjoyable. Merc mobula on dunes is OP and somewhat unfair. It's very difficult to clear so much distance while avoiding hull damage. The other maps are much more forgiving. My general feeling is that dunes is broken due to the very little cover. On a mobula against pubs I usually close distance to make things more interesting. You may have noticed that match we were fighting far north quite close to the dust wall.

My only excuse for that match is that my balloon artemis engi moved to the out of range mine launcher (never his job) to try to mine the pyra while you were respawning (pyra was fleeing). I foolishly tried to let him score a hit but it forced me to avoid the mines and lose arcs. More importantly I didn't tell him to get off it. This delayed the crucial kill long enough for you to come back in. The junker wasn't help but I'm accustomed to 2v1 in pubs. It was a good match.

Mobulas are a good target to focus down with your team.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2015, 04:17:55 pm by BlackenedPies »

Offline MightyKeb

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Re: Steam Sales
« Reply #101 on: February 21, 2015, 05:57:33 pm »
Mobulas are a good target to focus down with your team.

They're like a spire, but with the added bonus of being able to defend itself (vertical movement)


Speaking of which, I'm having a rather hard time trying to figure out a purpose for spire when compared to mobula. By purpose I dont mean what is it viable for, I mean, what can it do that other ships cant? For example, squid goes fast, mobula goes up and down fast, pyra rams good, galleon tanks good. But spire? turns fast.  You cant use that unless youre up close, which is already risky considering how weak it is when it comes to survivability. So far I've found only these builds "unique" to the spire:


Double gat + Heavy Flak + flamer/art
Hades+Lumber+Artemis+Light Flak/Flamer/Mine


I havent looked too deep into it, so feel free to inform me of any more possible spire-exclusive combinations!

Offline BlackenedPies

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Re: Steam Sales
« Reply #102 on: February 21, 2015, 07:08:53 pm »
As you know, the spire is very vulnerable to long range weapons due to its long profile making it easy to hit. One hades is enough to render a spire useless. Mercs and lumbers are also very effective. Close range dps or carronades are also deadly.
The spire does however have good turning and vertical. A well timed hydro can dodge a Pyramidion even with hydro and a buffed balloon.

The classic loadout is merc artemis flak. For flak I use a buff engi with spanner mallet buff and charged (sometimes loch). Double gat can work but it's very risky because you have no defence. Hades artemis works, you can even do double hades.
For a time I used to do a hades + lesmok gat flak spire. Two buff engi downstairs and I was a spanner mallet buff engi with a pilot tool. The hades engi had a main kit and a different pilot tool. This allowed me to buff the top deck and do hull repairs. I usually had a mine up top too (both us up top had lesmok) and the flak was spanner mallet buff lochnagar. This was mostly against charging ships.

The meta lumber is hades art lumber. Light flak is good for a quick kill, but artemis is invaluable in good hands. I used to use a light flak on top right and shoot it when their armor breaks. Now I use a mine to put in front of charging ships (my pilot ammo is always lesmok). In an emergency the gunner can move up to use the mine (lumber ammo = mine ammo). This is quite effective against slower ships like Junkers. With a good gunner you can lock down any ship except squids.

My favorite is hwatcha double art gat. Hwatcha and art on bottom, art and gat top (gat left). For longer range two art and hwatcha reliably disable and do armor damage. For closer the top engi moves to gat, or against a charging ship, I jump on gat for quadfecta. I have buff heavy for hwatcha but a gunner also works. I often see hades art hwatcha or even merc art hwatcha. Hwatcha gat mortar also works well.
I have found double art gat hwatcha to be very effective against most threats including fish and squids who can really give a spire a bad time. I've had a lot of success with this loadout and the double art hwatcha does significant damage to weaker armors while forcing lots of repairs.

My real favorite is heavy carronade double gat. Gats use heavy clip and aim for guns. A gat will break a light gun in under 2 seconds, however gat tracers don't line up exactly with where they hit. The goal is to charge fast and hard. Usually it's a good tactic to reload gat immediately when their armor breaks, but for this the gats constantly shoot. It only takes about 3 gat clips to kill a pyra. I have two main kit engineers with a gunner. The reason for the gunner is shooting charged or heatsink into guns/engines for additional shatter damage. I like using it against metamidions. It can be highly effective against poor Junkers.

Blender fish can be quite effective against spires due to their ability to take damage while charging fast, popping balloon, and ramming. Ships fall at a rate determined by their vertical speed (not sure the exact), so spires fall fast and the bottom spike makes them very vulnerable to hitting the ground. Carronade flame pyras are similarly very effective.

A tactic I love to counter this with is both hydro and drogue chute. Hydro before they pop your balloon, then drogue and keep shooting. The decision whether to bring kero or claw is situational but I usually prefer claw.
Another tactic that is useful on ships like mobulas and spires is to disregard repairs and keep shooting to overwhelm the target, even if your armor is down.
"No repairs! No cowards!"

To sum up I love spires but they are easily countered by range. They aren't seen is competitive due to this. Flash a spire and the other team will bring a hades.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2015, 07:41:54 pm by BlackenedPies »

Offline DrTentacles

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Re: Steam Sales
« Reply #103 on: February 22, 2015, 02:22:01 pm »
A buffed loch cannonade will also one-shot a spire's hull, making for possibly the fastest kill you can get in the game if you follow with a Blenderfish ram.

And we are so off-topic right now.

Offline BlackenedPies

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Re: Steam Sales
« Reply #104 on: February 22, 2015, 03:35:16 pm »
Another fun build is buff loch merc + buff loch heavy flak. The buff loch merc can 1 shot spires, fish, and squids.

1 shot armor break, 1 shot kill.