Guns Of Icarus Online
Main => General Discussion => Topic started by: Indreams on December 19, 2014, 09:18:42 pm
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Today, December 19th of 2014, GOIO is on sale on steam, 85% off, costing 2 dollars 24 cents.
I think the general sentiment of the forum is against steam sales, but what are your thoughts on it?
Is it good because it increases player base, and GOIO is a multiplayer game?
Or is it bad because it introduces clueless players who are not used to teamwork and communication that is rather unique to GOIO?
Or do you have other concurring or dissenting opinions? What are everyone's thought on Steam Sales' effect of GOIO?
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good,
I need to farm newbie commendations for the teaching achieves =P
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Frankly, I've a group of people on a forum I'm a highly regarded member of. I've been trying to get them to explore games outside the one our forum is focued upon, and in that time I've been waiting for GoIO to go to the point where my friends could buy it. A friend of mine got the game and is a Level 3 Gunner already, and another friend of mine got the game the other before it reached the $2 price point. I actually hope some more of my friends there grab the game (been training them the ins and outs, and I believe my other friend will make a fine pilot. :D)
Anyways, I'm optimistic with the Steam Sales, it gives me a chance to move some people I know to this game and introduce them to a game that has a higher emphasis on teamwork than I have ever seen before. Although I don't know of many people who would fit the rushed work of Engineer, I do know a few who could make good gunners or pilots. :)
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Good. It keeps Muse in business.
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Good: Most Money, MO UPDATES! Ya dig, dawg?
Seriously though, yes. More players,makes Muse money, and so what if they're new? Teach 'em!
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Probably good overall, 300-500 people on isn't a very healthy number.
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Can it be frustrating? Yes. I remember the days when I loaded Incendiary in to every gun because FIRE, and was entirely rubbish at keeping a ship alive, or hitting my targets, and I'm sure I caused some good players some major headaches. The same thing happens every time some one buys the game. Some people like to just stop in from time to time and play a few rounds, and some people really like this game a lot and get really good, and some people aren't interested in learning and just want to screw around. All these things are good. It keeps blood flowing through the veins of the community. That powder monkey you played with today might some day be the leader of the top competitive clan in the game. You never know who's gonna stick it out, which is why I always try and be constructive to new players, especially during the sales. If you just boot up a game with a skill cap as high as GoI, and you see someone who's basically reached that yelling at/ignoring you, it makes you not want to play the game any more. And that's bad.
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Probably good overall, 300-500 people on isn't a very healthy number.
Ha ha ha ha ha...sigh...youngins don't know how bad we had it with 5-15 on in Jan after the game launched.
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Can it be frustrating? Yes. I remember the days when I loaded Incendiary in to every gun because FIRE
Tfw implying fire is a bad strategy.
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Paid 3 dollars for the game, then another 5 for cosmetics.
You're welcome?
I think myself as a decent team player. Won my first four matches because we had a guy with a mic who knew what he was doing. He called the shots, and I followed. It was a lot of fun.
Then I lost the next few I played because it didn't have that level of direction.
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Paid 3 dollars for the game, then another 5 for cosmetics.
You're welcome?
I think myself as a decent team player. Won my first four matches because we had a guy with a mic who knew what he was doing. He called the shots, and I followed. It was a lot of fun.
Then I lost the next few I played because it didn't have that level of direction.
Until you develop unconcious tics and instincts from having the principles beat into your head by vets, you will need that direction. Were you in a novice match? If no, GTFO and get back into said Novice matches before you quit the game from frustration, trust me.
If you have questions, ask the Community Ambassadors, post on the Q n' A board, and talk to people. If you want some pointers, I'd be glad to either A) pass what little knowledge I have on, or B) point you towards someone with a vast repository of general knowledge and knowhow. Feel free to friend me in game!
See you in the Skies, and good luck! o7
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Paid 3 dollars for the game, then another 5 for cosmetics.
You're welcome?
I think myself as a decent team player. Won my first four matches because we had a guy with a mic who knew what he was doing. He called the shots, and I followed. It was a lot of fun.
Then I lost the next few I played because it didn't have that level of direction.
I know that pain. I too have had good matches where a guy with a mic knows what he's doing, and is communicating well with his ally. On the other hand, I have had some bad ones because my crew was all jerks, or just because the other team was really experienced in the game.
I see you've taken a notice to Engineer by the looks of your level stats. If you want some pointers from a fellow engi, I'd be willing to teach what I know (still learning from fellow Gents above me actually), and get ya familiarized with ship layouts and the like. :)
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Getting chem cycles taught before the regular matches will have Captain's loving you like their firstborn child.
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Paid 3 dollars for the game, then another 5 for cosmetics.
You're welcome?
I think myself as a decent team player. Won my first four matches because we had a guy with a mic who knew what he was doing. He called the shots, and I followed. It was a lot of fun.
Then I lost the next few I played because it didn't have that level of direction.
I see you've taken a notice to Engineer by the looks of your level stats. If you want some pointers from a fellow engi, I'd be willing to teach what I know (still learning from fellow Gents above me actually), and get ya familiarized with ship layouts and the like. :)
I like the Engi, because I can still help with gunning sometimes if the match is going well and we're not taking hits. I'm not bad on a gun, so I might do some side-leveling as a Gunner at some point.
I'll give you a friend request later on.
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I don't think forumites are against steam sales, I think they dislike the random grab bag of players that comes with them.
I don't like doing laundry, but I know it is necessary if I want clean clothes to wear. In the same way game population management is necessary, and one aspect of that is changing the price of the game to keep new players coming in. This generates a fair chunk of work for those of us who play pub games with random crews since we get a healthy influx of clueless players, stupid players, inexperienced players, and grade A asshats. I think it is important to distinguish between these folks. We were all clueless and inexperienced once, and up to a point there is nothing people can do about being a bit thick. We don't have to tolerate the asshats though.
How we can enjoy the game changes during sales and some people really dislike that change. In the same way that a full hamper tells me it is time to crank up the washing machine, a sub 200 online population tells Muse it is time to put out a steam sale.
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Agreed. Normally I saw around 300 people on in the evenings, but it dropped to 200. Last night there were just over 1500!
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The question is. How long will that stay? I love seeing that number, i just need to wait for them to know what they are doing.
Ive found some newbies, some bad some good. And the ones that are good are usually the ones that have coms. like seriously people open up the communication voice systemus!
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The question is. How long will that stay? I love seeing that number, i just need to wait for them to know what they are doing.
Ive found some newbies, some bad some good. And the ones that are good are usually the ones that have coms. like seriously people open up the communication voice systemus!
I think you've been around for long enough that you know how the peaks and valleys of GOIO population as influenced by Steam sales go ;)
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I have no problem with steam sales, but it does make me sad to see the growth of assholes and completely clueless novices playing, having a good crew is what makes or breaks a match. It's a "necessary evil" as the sales give more money to muse and more visibility, more people might actually give this game a shot and love it.
All I hope is that these sales help the game get better.
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I think you've been around for long enough that you know how the peaks and valleys of GOIO population as influenced by Steam sales go ;)
Yupp, but never 1000+ people. Im sure that some will stick. Will maybe not earn goio a significant ammount but some atleast.
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It'll last about a week or two with numbers back to normal by about a month. However, the baseline numbers has gradually been increasing. Since the netcode patch things were looking up. Then MM hit, but for all the vets that have stopped playing as much, more noobs fill in. When the new weapon is added and if certain ship refinements happen, we'll likely see a resurgence in veteran crowd. Ultimately tho, if Muse can get enough people into GOIO now, they may be able to get some bigger sales for COOP when it hits.
This is something I noticed Dino D-day did with their DLC COOP mode. They lowered the price of the initial game to super cheap for the steam sale then left the DLC price higher. The game is fun enough that I've been tempted to splurge and get the COOP addon. Trouble is, no one I gifted copies to has gotten into game yet. When there is no friends to COOP with, there is no reason to buy the DLC.
Awesomenauts has done a similar thing with Starstorm. They cut the main game price to dirt cheap then leave Starstorm high. Cept to me they haven't given a reason to pay the higher price yet. Course I'm not a serious player of that.
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Co-op is a really good point.
I think the game and its community will develop far better with the introduction of Co-op.
Most players wouldn't mind the relatively stressless version of GOIO. New players can get the hang of the game in the less "competitive" mode of the game. Having a good player base for the upcoming Co-op is a really good thing. And the Skirmish and MM could really use a four-digit players online.
Does anybody know how many people own GOIO? It'd be good to have that in this discussion.
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Hopefully the PS4 release will bring in folks as well.
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Well if forum membership comes with purchase of the game then there are 224077 owners of GOIO atm.
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Steam sales are useful for getting new blood.
But in the process of this period in the life cycle of guns. You gotta weed out the riff raff from the diamonds in the rough. Eventually the riff raff will leave. And those that endured the trials by fire that the vets demand of them, become just like us, inquisitive, intuitive and a team player.
So yes. It does increase the playerbase, or rather maintains it as people come and go. It is a necessary thing. My clan is full of wonderful players, that have simply vanished from the game. But they are proof that the sales are necessary in maintaining the community.
And here's hoping the ps4 will finally help not only maintain the community, but increase it to.
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Well if forum membership comes with purchase of the game then there are 224077 owners of GOIO atm.
Imagine if all half scratch all that, just one tenth came back for co-op. That's 22 thousand we're talking about here. Hundred times the usual number.
Heads up Muse. Servers better be ready for future releases! Don't be a Warlord of Draenor!
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Well if forum membership comes with purchase of the game then there are 224077 owners of GOIO atm.
Imagine if all half scratch all that, just one tenth came back for co-op. That's 22 thousand we're talking about here. Hundred times the usual number.
Heads up Muse. Servers better be ready for future releases! Don't be a Warlord of Draenor!
To be fair, half of WoD release issues were due to DDOS-ers. Muse probably won't have to deal with that.
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That number can't be right because:
https://gunsoficarus.com/community/forum/index.php/topic,2127.msg36704.html
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That number can't be right because:
https://gunsoficarus.com/community/forum/index.php/topic,2127.msg36704.html
gee, so more than quarter million. Wow. Just wow.
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So then perhaps only 220k are the ones who have checked into the forums? Hmmm, reminder for someone to ask Muse at the devside later what numbers are accurate. We know its at over 250k. I'd guestimate given a year since that post we'd be closer to 500k by now.
So either way, lets estimate Muse makes COOP mode and lets throw out all the people who did the kickstarter. So say maybe 300k are all people who haven't kickstarted or given money for COOP. Say COOP was $10 just for the purpose of this calculation. Thats 3 mil right there. So even if 100k still haven't bought COOP but will once it launches, then thats 1 mil to Muse. Divide that by 7 or 8 team members. Granted there is rent and such to pay on their offices and other expenses. But still, Dat gud bizness!
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So then perhaps only 220k are the ones who have checked into the forums? Hmmm, reminder for someone to ask Muse at the devside later what numbers are accurate. We know its at over 250k. I'd guestimate given a year since that post we'd be closer to 500k by now.
So either way, lets estimate Muse makes COOP mode and lets throw out all the people who did the kickstarter. So say maybe 300k are all people who haven't kickstarted or given money for COOP. Say COOP was $10 just for the purpose of this calculation. Thats 3 mil right there. So even if 100k still haven't bought COOP but will once it launches, then thats 1 mil to Muse. Divide that by 7 or 8 team members. Granted there is rent and such to pay on their offices and other expenses. But still, Dat gud bizness!
dun think that's quite how it works (work being paid based on how many people play). But sure if we go with this. they get a livable humble salary.
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Co-op is a really good point.
I think the game and its community will develop far better with the introduction of Co-op.
Most players wouldn't mind the relatively stressless version of GOIO. New players can get the hang of the game in the less "competitive" mode of the game. Having a good player base for the upcoming Co-op is a really good thing. And the Skirmish and MM could really use a four-digit players online.
Does anybody know how many people own GOIO? It'd be good to have that in this discussion.
My own brother is vaguely turned off of the game due to its primary PvP focus, though I convinced him to get it while it was five bucks before it went back all the way to 20$.
Some Co-Op would be nice, a bit more stress free would make me play the game a bit more. As of now I give it about an hour or two every couple days, not something I could binge on. As with most PvP games, if I lost too many rounds in a row I lose morale and stop playing the game entirely. (League of Legends did that to me, I barely touch it now).
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Co-op would still have the same issue.
Lack of teamwork and competence ruins the flavour of the game. Guns will be guns no matter what mode you play.
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Well games like L4D even have griefers in COOP play. I used to do max difficulty campaign clears in L4D1 all the time years back. I'd be at it for hours getting it right and when you'd have a good team, it would be great fun. But there was a lot of guys who would hop in and then purposely do stupid stuff to ruin it.
But if I had a choice to choose PVP or PVE mode in that game, I'd almost always choose PVE just because the griefers in PVP were much worse. Mostly due to the fact that everyone wanted to be zombies and no one wanted to play survivors. However, if you invented a game that was nothing but playing as zombies, no one would buy it. The human element was key to the enjoyment. Just people are selfish asses who are never willing to let others have a turn.
COOP mode in GOIO will get griefers and trolls. That is a given. However, they won't be near as bad as PVP. It'll be similar. You'll likely just have bad crew members hop on and shoot clouds/etc. Currently, nothing can be done to resolve this either way.
Which comes right back around to the #1 feature Muse needs to implement. One which myself and many others have been crying about for years. No more fooling around or walking the "please everyone" tightrope. Especially with a PS4 version coming and the hell that is going to inflict upon this community and upon the CA system. Enough is enough Muse, your reasons for not doing it were noble. But it comes a time in this trolly, dick filled, jerk world that you just gotta toss in the towel.
Thats right, its time...to add a kick vote feature. GOIO is practically one of the only FPS games of it's kind without a kick vote or mod functionality where players can mod in a kick vote. L4D has it, Payday 2 has it, dev after dev have added it. It comes a time when despite your noble reasons, you just have to sit down and say "screw it, it is better to piss off a few dick players instead of the multitude they are trolling." The CA system worked when things were small, it doesn't work when it gets larger. Not without starting to pay people to do it. Course if you're going to start paying people to ban trolls then sign me up. I got a block list which speaks of how effective I'd be...heh heh :D
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Well games like L4D even have griefers in COOP play. I used to do max difficulty campaign clears in L4D1 all the time years back. I'd be at it for hours getting it right and when you'd have a good team, it would be great fun. But there was a lot of guys who would hop in and then purposely do stupid stuff to ruin it.
But if I had a choice to choose PVP or PVE mode in that game, I'd almost always choose PVE just because the griefers in PVP were much worse. Mostly due to the fact that everyone wanted to be zombies and no one wanted to play survivors. However, if you invented a game that was nothing but playing as zombies, no one would buy it. The human element was key to the enjoyment. Just people are selfish asses who are never willing to let others have a turn.
COOP mode in GOIO will get griefers and trolls. That is a given. However, they won't be near as bad as PVP. It'll be similar. You'll likely just have bad crew members hop on and shoot clouds/etc. Currently, nothing can be done to resolve this either way.
Which comes right back around to the #1 feature Muse needs to implement. One which myself and many others have been crying about for years. No more fooling around or walking the "please everyone" tightrope. Especially with a PS4 version coming and the hell that is going to inflict upon this community and upon the CA system. Enough is enough Muse, your reasons for not doing it were noble. But it comes a time in this trolly, dick filled, jerk world that you just gotta toss in the towel.
Thats right, its time...to add a kick vote feature. GOIO is practically one of the only FPS games of it's kind without a kick vote or mod functionality where players can mod in a kick vote. L4D has it, Payday 2 has it, dev after dev have added it. It comes a time when despite your noble reasons, you just have to sit down and say "screw it, it is better to piss off a few dick players instead of the multitude they are trolling." The CA system worked when things were small, it doesn't work when it gets larger. Not without starting to pay people to do it. Course if you're going to start paying people to ban trolls then sign me up. I got a block list which speaks of how effective I'd be...heh heh :D
Kicking segregates the community. Noobs appear, they are dicks (the recent steam sale players are seriously getting on my nerves), but guess what? Guns has a very prominent community. The moment they realise that we as a community eat those trolls for breakfast. They get schooled, get all mad and leave.
And what remains of the sales rush are the new true guns players. Muse gets their money, we maintain the community via a common enemy and we get new blood that understands why community is important.
You gotta understand-trolls outnumber us during the sales period. If kick voting was implemented (and given to users), the community would not be the ones that are empowered.
However-Kick power given to CAs? I would like to be considered as a last resort reprimand.
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I REALLY like the CA kick idea. The trolls, if given kickvote, would abuse it to hell and back. People who aren't as reasonable would use it to kick noobs, even if they genuinely wanted or were willing to learn.
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Livin in a dream world Ceres. Reality is the trolls do far more damage to new players than ever. They don't know to report or block. They don't know to find a CA. Which won't do them any good anyways as CAs can only warn and report people. I was originally doubtful about kicking as a solution but over a year in this game it became painfully clear that the community does nothing. It only takes 1 match to completely ruin a person on GOIO forever. There were people I befriended awhile back, they had 1 match with a troll on their boat. Never saw them again after that.
There is never some heroic rise of the community to punish a troll. If you want to punish them, either you do it yourself, or find someone like me who isn't afraid to chase them from room to room with a munker and mine them till they rage quit. That is the only justice there is in this game. Which is of course frowned upon by Muse because the troll can report us for that behavior. Hell back in the early days I had a crew of kids report me for flying my own ship. I joined while one of their group had disconnected and they started dancing around the pilot station instead of just saying their pal would be back. I reported them and screenshotted it. They in turn reported me. Muse messaged me regarding their complaints, not mine. I brought up the proof, but they still partially sided with the brats.
Muse is living in a dream world too on this issue. One of these days, they'll be forced into a corner and have to implement it. Its coming. The more popular something becomes, the more complaints arise. Muse can't just keep putting bandaids on it by giving away games or free costumes forever to players. Pretty soon that will be exploited if it hasn't already been. Heck as this game goes more towards Adventure Mode's pseudo MMO setup, this will be a necessity. I can't think of any MMO that doesn't have kick features for parties/groups.
Kick voting greatly returns the power to the players. Sure trolls in groups would abuse it but those would be isolated cases. The rest of us it gives them an option to deal with these people instead of having to endure them. For the bad cases, just put cooldowns on kick features. Its a simple concept that MMOs have been using for years to prevent trolls from abusing. Muse shouldn't be having to micromanage all the complaints that could be handled by a kick system. Heck the fact that they still do right now is shocking. That is needless time wasted on problems that can be easily solved with a simple feature addition. As the game grows, this is going to have to change.
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I kinda like that Muse has an ideology and they stick to it.
GOIO is different from many other games because of its community and communication. I don't think kick-vote is a step in the right direction.
And from my experience, there are very few real trolls in GOIO. Those that you think are trolls often turn out to be new players getting hang of communicative gaming, repair cool downs, or just trying out a creative/weird builds.
I think GOIO needs to make clear that this is not just a steampunk airship game, but also a game about intense cooperation and teamwork with strangers (an important life skill).
I got more I want to say, but I can't put them into correct words. So I hope I sorta got the main point across.
1.) Kick-vote is not a plus to the community. At best, its a bitter medicine to cure a cold.
2.) Trolls are misunderstood creatures. (at least in the skies of GOIO)
3.) GOIO needs to be obvious to new players that it is a game about communication, cooperation, and teamwork thats probably more proper for the more mature gamers.
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GOIO is different from many other games because of its community and communication. I don't think kick-vote is a step in the right direction.
I think GOIO needs to make clear that this is not just a steampunk airship game, but also a game about intense cooperation and teamwork with strangers (an important life skill).
1.) Kick-vote is not a plus to the community. At best, its a bitter medicine to cure a cold.
Agreed.
2.) Trolls are misunderstood creatures. (at least in the skies of GOIO)
Disagreed. They are assholes or douchebags thinking it's another bloody Call Of Duty.
3.) GOIO needs to be obvious to new players that it is a game about communication, cooperation, and teamwork thats probably more proper for the more mature gamers.
Yeah sure. I wonder HOW would you do so. If people don't even tend to read, ha, they don't even dare to THINK...
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Nothing teaches better than a good schooling.
Adding to the ever increasing AI clan mantras.
"Players want to learn to get better. Noobs only want to win."
And gilder... you're misunderstanding what I mean. Policing a community doesn't always have to be some immature 4chan raid on the troll.
It is simply the tolerance of the community of certain types of behaviour. They can be jerks as much as they want, but guess what? That's not gonna get you any friends to play with, any teammates you can trust nor any vets that will help you.
You'll just be stuck with the company that you're stuck with, other douchebags that you can only play with as no one else will willingly tolerate you.
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The whole conversation about kicking really scares me. I haven't read all the threads on it, but I've seen enough to turn me off to it. None of the details ever seem to be concrete enough to make me feel safe about it. Like, how many people would it take to kick a player? Is it more than 3? If not, a crew could (and a whole lot would, let's be honest here) kick a player for being too new or denying a recommended loadout or something. Is it more than 7? Because a team could easily do the same thing that a crew could do in terms of unfairly kicking. And the age old "Hey, X, could you swap with my friend in the spectator slot" becomes a kick if you have enough players. I often play with a whole team of friends, and I'm sure you've seen those newbie clans with, like, 12 players in them. The power is going to be so hard to balance in a game like this.
And on top of all that, no "Kick player back to lobby" button exists for mods. The kick feature (and correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think I am) removes a player from the game, not from a match. So that entire system would have to be built. But how much good would it really do to kick a troll back to the main lobby if they can just hop into another match? Someone who is the kind of person who would spend money on a game just to ruin it for themselves and everyone else I don't think would be deterred by a boot to the main lobby, which is why (I would assume ) mods don't do that.
CAs, on the other hand, I feel might be a better about having a power like that. As opposed to a lobby of people wanting to play, CAs have the responsibility to follow up on a problem players. I read a thread a while back about giving CAs a vote kick feature. Like, 2 (or more) CAs have to agree on kicking/muting a player before it happen. I think most of the CAs are pretty trusted enough by the community and the development team that this doesn't seem so outlandish. However, after working with the Devs a lot, it is blatantly obvious the all Muse wants is a better game for everybody, so I generally trust them to be making better choices for the community, and they haven't really let me down yet. So if they still hold to the "only mods should have that power" line, I trust them on that, like I have in the past
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I'm opposed to a kick feature, but I think there are things we can do to help with this problem. The first issue I see is far too many people try to reason with trolls. Block. Report. Move on. If you are a CA or CA Mod sure, you try to get people to play nice before you drop the ban hammer (or in the case of CAs get a CA Mod to do it for you) because there is an implicit duty of care there, but the rest of us are just feeding trolls if you try to reason with them. One feature that doesn't help with this is the report limit players have which I regularly hit during sales, I know why it is there, but I think five is a bit low.
As far as to social organization of the games go there is an intermediate step between kicking and what we have now, changes to the matchmaker. If I have a player blocked, odds are pretty decent I don't want to play with them (I know some folks block players for other reasons so maybe an alternative status would be useful). If the lobby hid matches I'm in from players on my do-not-play-with list and the matchmaker avoided putting me in matches with those players in them I'd have to worry less about trolls.
This has a number of advantages. No one is explicitly kicked. Individual players or even medium sized groups of players have little power. Vets cannot use it to kick new players (what are you going to do, block all the thousands of powder monkeys during a sale? Good luck with that). You cant kick a player to let a friend in, so that problem goes away.
The problems:
-I can really see is if trolls annoy so many people they cannot be put in any game, but I think if you have managed to annoy all 300 people online at a time, maybe this variant of a 'soft ban' is justified.
-Players could join a lobby on a different player and find you there, but that is going to require a fair bit of work from the troll.
-Some players would blocked skilled players to stop ending up in matches with them.
I don't think we need to empower players to stop others from playing. We need to empower them with the choice not to play with folks they don't want to play with. One is depriving another of autonomy, the other is utilizing ones own.
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Why is votekicking being discussed again? It's a feature just as likely a boarding.
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I dunno if we got people confusing bad players for trolls or not.
But just for clarification a troll is a player that actively plays to intentionally be a detriment to their team/ship.
Like a loch engie that destroys all guns and doesn't fix.
A pilot that spams hydro or moonshine while in neutral.
These are example where I'm dead certain someone is being an ass and not just being a tard. Most times however I'm just seeing noobs, as opposed to trolls. Literal players trying to play to win, without the experience/common sense to follow through.
The kinda player that thinks the predictions of a players thats played over 1000 matches isn't gonna come true.
So just to be clear... is an imbecile considered a legit troll? If it is the case, then by far a kick feature is not the thing to fix this.
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I like it when level 4's try to give level 45's with 4000 plus matches (9800 matches plus in certain cases) advice.
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That's cute.
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Prior to my whole PC-gaming addiction, I used to actively play a lot of Star Wars: Battlefront. The online mode does have a kick feature, and I've seen it used both in a good way, and in a bad way. I've been in servers where players were group-voted upon and kicked out just because they were bad at playing, and other times because legitimately they were being trolls. I've also been on the other hand of that spectrum as well, and know first-hand about the kick feature.
In my experience, kick-voting is just a tool that has too many cons to outweigh the pros of it. So it wouldn't shock me if Muse does not implement it (and hopefully they don't).
I know the whole matter has been thoroughly discussed by you guys, but I felt like tossing in my opinion on the topic as well.
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Going back on the topic of steam sales,...
GOIO is on sale big and frequently. Right now, at the low price of $3.74, its 5 cents cheaper than McDonald's quarter pounder with cheese.
2 Cheeseburgers - Meal $4.89.
Quarter Pounder with Cheese $3.79.
Point is, GOIO is a very accessible game. Pretty much anybody who can afford internet can afford GOIO. What are your thoughts on this? Should GOIO become even more accessible (say become free-to-play) or less accessible (maybe go on sales a little less often)?
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I wish this game best, so I'm very sorry to say, that the latter.
I bought this game myself when it was not on sale, and in fact that was one of the key reasons I haven't dropped it after few matches with idiots who were doing some useless crap (aaaaaah, novice pubs), and even the more harsh moment, when matchmaker was first introduced.
Sometimes awareness of how much something cost you is a powerful thing, especially if you are a poor student with no way to get a job, because your university stomps on you as a gentle greeting, and throws a piano on your head when it wants to be a bit more direct.
I actually don't regret not leaving the game, I have fun, but I miss times when I could manually search the matches myself, choose whether I want to play with someone or not, and being forced to speed up with preparations as a captain, so I could easily explain plan and things aboard to novices without microphone.
Now I block people daily and I report people at least once a bloody day, mostly because I can't stand people who bought the game and sale for a joke amount of money and don't even want to fucking get what this game is all about - even if they don't mean to do so, they ruin my games sometimes which is abolutely unnerving.
I don't want votekicks, because I know I would propably kicked out of some ships.
But for Christ's sake, take it out of the sale. Give us some breathing room.
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@Votekick
We need it. Or something similar because at the moment this is what happens:
>Come to lobby in ship with 2 friends (so ship is filled 3/4 people)
>You know each other and are if not skilled then at least willing to cooperate
>Wild captain lvl1 appears
>You and your friends use VOICECHAT
>It's not really effective
>You use TEXT CHAT
>It's not very effective
>You use PRIVATE MESSAGE
>You fucking guessed, it's not effective
>You either get the fuck of the lobby or have a ruined match
>GOIO y u do dis
Don't even get me started on shit what happens when you actually try to enter the game ALONE. Seriously the ones who go that path should abandon all hope and try not to scream in agony.
Don't get me wrong, I understand that we need to care about new players and stuff (especially stuff!) but if there's nothing for veterans to, at least partially, protect themselves from noobs they will either leave pubs or leave game at all, and possibly it's latter in the longer run. I think Counter Strike GO is a great example of game that is made 'entirely' for hardcore players/veterans* and it is a great success with growing player base. There votekick is a thing and neither I nor my brother (who plays much more CS:GO) did notice some noticable harrasment. More often it was a relief to kick that pesky 12-year old who begs for your attention with his Nazgul-like screeky voice.
*also it's a game that I actually don't like that much and I won't be playing - but many people love it and I can understand why, I'm just not that of a hardcore FPS player
@Steam Sales
Well, actually this game only caught my eye because it was so cheap (guuuuuiiiiilllllltyyyyyyyyy). I like the big(ger) playerbase but I hate encountering noobs, especially the type of ones mentioned above. Many times I said that noob-related stuff is important and we should figure it out but I guess we're run of time and ideas for that matter. I can just hope that people smarter than me are working to figure out how to sell GOIO on sale to benefit both players and Muse.
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As a counter point though.
Grinding certain achieves are pretty much only possible with noobs.
Have fun getting unscathed or white whaler on veterans. There are places for vets, its what the community is for. They're called competitions and private games (not that I can ever gather the numbers for either).
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If you want to get achievements related to newbies, you should be able TO CHOOSE IT, FFS.
I'm not a veteran, and I understand that some players don't know literally everything.
But goddammit, please. I felt games were more balanced, and I had much more fun of them BEFORE 1.3.8 patch.
Honestly today was the first day since some time I had literally a REALLY good time, cause I got aboard with really nice crew ( waffleghost, rinntaq and kill me, but I forgot the last one - I'm sorry ). Not because they are good (well, ok, it is that too) but also because they are funny guys and like to goofy around ( 1: I'll shoot some mines at our ally 2: Remember to make it look like an accident 1: Oh, well, it is an accident.) but when it comes to fight, suddenly everything is in one, proper place.
When you play with players with average of levels below 15 you sometimes wanna cut yourself.
Honestly, FFS. Guys goes on helm, when he is an engie, and does some seriously screwed up shit.
I tried at least to ask him, to get me some angles for mercury. PFFFF. Right, funny shit. Welp, no.
Then, in the middle of deepest shit, he suddenly left helm! Only to rush down for heavy flak that was ought to be manned by MrDisaster, BUT GUESS WHAT. He was doing that idiot work, BECAUSE HE GOT US IN SOME SERIOUS CRAP.
I'm still against votekick, but I swear I had serious doubts watching that bastard. It just can't be even the special kind of stupidity. However I'd rather solve this by some solution to shoot that guy in the head in real life.
How about giving players ability to choose range of levels to play with, and basic on that assemble lobbies? I mean - our level is 22, and we set that indicator to, let's say, 12. It means we wanna play with players levels 10-34. However I just got this idea, and it's like 3:30 AM around here, so I didn't think about this too hard.
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for those systems to be viable you'd need an excess of expendable player base or somehow programme AI difficulty levels.
I'm all for segregating the novices away from casuals and vets. They are the guaranteed party poopers of any pub lobby. However, the casuals have to learn to grow out of diapers and its against vets that you take those humbling steps.
The common counter to that point is that some novices listen and get good really quickly. By which I say, I dominated novice matches through my natural intelligence (seriously people say learning the basics of this game is hard... its not... to me anyway. It took me a tutorial and 3 matches to master the fundamentals of decent piloting, gunning and engineering- and I don't mean just learning the freakin controls).
And even though I knew I could benefit from skipping baby mode. I stuck to it, mastering the basics and internalising the very bare minimum of what I should expect from a crew.
So yeah, ok. A Novice can point a gun and fix an engine. So what? If they're that good they'll breeze through novice levels, its not like the old days where I had to literally grind specific achievements to graduate. You just have to play a few matches.
Besides... any graduates that survive novice will actually appreciate what good teamwork is, as they are forced to endure the torture that is themselves.
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I bought this game on release day for the "Release day sale" which was not nearly as drastic as some of the more recent steam sales. After I realized this game was to occupy a major part of my leisure time I started looking for ways I could pass the devs a little more money. The devs obliged with costuming options, ship accesories, and the Adventure mode kick starter. I suggest that you don't look at the steam sale price as the price of the full game, but the price of a demo that lets you access all the features of the full game for an infinite period of time. The real GOI experience comes in when you have a bunch of in game friends in color coordinated outfits causing merry havoc and looking good in the end of match pose off. That experience can be obtained for a reasonable amount after the initial purchase.
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Call me when there's an update or Adventure mode comes out. I'm putting GOIO in the backseat for now, though any invites to play on steam will be accepted if possible.
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I bought this game on release day for the "Release day sale" which was not nearly as drastic as some of the more recent steam sales. After I realized this game was to occupy a major part of my leisure time I started looking for ways I could pass the devs a little more money. The devs obliged with costuming options, ship accesories, and the Adventure mode kick starter. I suggest that you don't look at the steam sale price as the price of the full game, but the price of a demo that lets you access all the features of the full game for an infinite period of time. The real GOI experience comes in when you have a bunch of in game friends in color coordinated outfits causing merry havoc and looking good in the end of match pose off. That experience can be obtained for a reasonable amount after the initial purchase.
I knew it. I knew hats and costumes were the most important part of competitive multiplayer games.
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If you can't look good while you are winning, is it really worth winning?
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Ya can't really win without a bling muthafucka'.
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Ya can't really win without a bling muthafucka'.
Ya cant really say the word without the bleep motha****************************
Swears. (Im not backseat moderating, Im too posh for seats!)
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Thanks to Steam sales I have four friends who play the game, whom without sales would not likely have purchased the game, and knowing they play the game because of that makes me happy.
Yes I pull my hair out at the hundreds of COD "Ima gunna only brah cos I got mad skillz" when they can't even handle a gatling gun or flamer and only use default... Or the engineers who sit on the rear flare gun... And don't shoot it... But out of the hundreds of idiots will be four or five legends waiting to be born.
I myself purchased less than a week before a sale, which I'm bummed I missed out on a great bargain but am happy I paid more to an awesome Dev team.
Regarding kick ability...
I'm so torn in the middle of this...
Puzzle Pirates runs a plank walking system, under the captains control. (You have to earn the money you use to buy the ship which adds an element to the argument) but its never nice when you get planked because you're not as high level as expected or because the captains friend just logged on.. This would cause big problems in Guns of Icarus... We are a close knit community and getting into this community can be tough, add an ability to make it harder and new players would just not stay... :(
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When we got matchmaking, I died a little on the inside...
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When we got matchmaking, I died a little on the inside...
I joined after MM implementation, I sometimes wish I knew what the 'old days' were like.
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I quite like the MM, I find that you just need to crew form with a few friends and it's a lot more enjoyable, sometimes you get stacked matches, sometimes you find your other friends also in the queue and there's times, and often, where games is down to the wire.
It been more fun, games start sooner instead of waiting in lobby, giving the game a nickname, lobbies of Icarus, which some people prefer, but that's why we have custom games still.
I honestly barely look at the match list now, preferring to invite anyone who's in lobby or crew form (sometimes they have just 1-2 other people and you can merge up to form a full ship or two)
In a way, it's a good thing you came after, because then you can enjoy the game currently instead of marred by past experience.
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I think you also summed up mt GoI experience :) well said Abby! Salute x
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I bought the 4-player licence on Steam last night. I have been poking around today and gifted my friends with the game. GOIO is certainly nothing like any game we have played before (usually turn based strategy), but the thought of a co-op team has us intrigued. For the discounted price we have nothing to lose and perhaps a whole lot of fun to gain. I used to play Sky Galleons of Mars (with painted miniatures) years ago and it was my search using the keyword Steampunk on Steam that pointed me to GOIO.
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Ooh I have wanted to try space 1889 since forever, how long does a game of sky galleons take?
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A game of SGoM takes from 1 to 2 hours. You can find out more about it on Board Game Geek.
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I did look there, it's pretty desolate :(
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I joined after MM implementation, I sometimes wish I knew what the 'old days' were like.
We called the game Lobbies of Icarus because we would spend half our time in lobby. You could actually calculate this by comparing how long steam said you have been playing the game by how long the game said you spend playing each class. For every one I talked to it came out at 2 hours in game to 1 hour actual game play.
The game play was pretty excellent. There was a gentleman's agreement that the game wouldn't start if a captain was trying to get a crew member to take the right kit. So when they did start each ships was setup to the captain's preferences. However it meant that one troll could stall a 16 person game. Some times one troll would show up and every body would leave the lobby and start a new one with roughly the same ships.
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There was a gentleman's agreement that the game wouldn't start if a captain was trying to get a crew member to take the right kit. So when they did start each ships was setup to the captain's preferences.
This is an issue with new matchmaker.
However it meant that one troll could stall a 16 person game. Some times one troll would show up and every body would leave the lobby and start a new one with roughly the same ships.
This one still works exactly the same... Except named lobbies, I miss those :(
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I'm after a terrible session in GOIO.
Every matchmaker use, everytime shitty allies and shitty crew.
I don't know what's worse.
Waiting 30 minutes to see the same set of nicknames, or encountering stupid/arrogant/nooby players every single time in high numbers, like the whole 2v2 lobby.
The only good thing out of the recent sales is that I accidentaly found a true gem. New player that want to learn some things hard. What's more, from my country. But that's, as I mentioned before, the only thing good so far I've noticed.
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Polish the gems. Let the rest settle back into the steam.
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Richard, I wish I could un-salute you for puns that bad.
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I don't like sales.
A lobby mostly newbies, one of our vet female players uses a mic, all newer players turn into perverted creeps... Good Job Internet.
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@Kamoba, well, week before the sale there was a guy who called Isla a slut for no reason, so you know. It's not only the matter of sales.
@Hamster, I can't see a pun there, unless Richard knows I'm from Poland. As for that guy, yeah, I try getting him in practice to show him new things everytime I can.
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@Kamoba, well, week before the sale there was a guy who called Isla a slut for no reason, so you know. It's not only the matter of sales.
@Hamster, I can't see a pun there, unless Richard knows I'm from Poland. As for that guy, yeah, I try getting him in practice to show him new things everytime I can.
Oh yes I know about that guy, spoke to him myself, reported him, He logged out never to return again since. (I imagine after he got his pop up warning.)
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"Pop up warning"... like - dozens of them. He was very unlucky, most players in the lobby were more experienced players, so everyone started reporting the bastard. And before somebody asks - I feel no regret. Such behavior must be punished.
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Fortunately situations like that are not so common, and the people who do come into the game with "that attitude" rarely last long, because as many say, Guns of Icarus has a close knit awesome community!
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I remember the last, long lasting sale, when I was blocking at least 5 players a day and reporting at least one when I was lucky...
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I like to think of icarus as a proccessing plant.
You get in, you get, as mentioned, "proccessed". If you dont survive this cog-ful transformation you're thrown out the backdoor (As in leaving by own will)
But if you do you get to be one of those nice dudes and all
Sure, every community has a few bad apples but I like to think that the teamwork mechanics of GOI is the biggest reason why we seem to have a better community in terms of manners than most. Albeit small, for the same reason. B-But size doesnt matter! >:(
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Teamwork aspects, Steampunk origins, and a big clan named [Gent] adding to the subconscious thoughts that we should all be polite and gentlen.
Tally Ho!
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I am not sure how that was a bad pun. I was trying to say something deep. xD
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I and the mentioned cog named ryedstar are, to repeat once more, from Poland. So you know. "Polish the gem"... nevermind.
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Unintentional punnage. Best kind of punnage.
I did come in during a Steam sale, but I am glad I never went through the 'snowflake' stage. Straight to cog. I wanted the game to be good, so I did all I could to make it the best experience I could. One of the very first things I did was put every gun on every ship to see what interesting arcs I could get. Then I flew nothing but Galleon for two months straight to keep my levels artificially low. Eventually a lot of people caught on after getting surprised stomped by that level 4 LeMoon guy and the Jeeves. Good times.
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I did the same thing in practice mode when I started the game. I remember I had 3 hours of gameplay before I started my first live match just because I did not want to screw up a functioning team. When I joined my first live match and immediately announced "Hi, this is my first game, what do you want me to do?" I was told to watch the hull of the a spire (back when it was on the bottom deck). We still lost probably because I brought a pipe wrench instead of spanner mallet. In fact I lost a lot of my early games, it is a wonder I am still here.
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Because it does not matter if you win or lose on a well run ship. It just has to be fun. Think of how many times you 'lost' in every other game, only to pick yourself up and try again.
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I'm still in that sort of in-between stage. I'm very much still learning, but I'd like to think I'm a decent crewmember/pilot. I definitely want to be one of the legendary veterans that everyone talks about. Steam Sales bring in dirt, and a lot of it, but you never know whether something valuable might surface as you dig through. Richard's "Gem" metaphor ties in. I'm personally for sales; assholes are everywhere, and a little extra to filter out is an annoyance, but we endure massive explosions and huge bullets daily- I think a few, unknowldgeable jerks are easy enough.
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Steam sales are good and bad. I came in during a sale and probably wouldn't have bought it at $15. The sale I joined during was HUGE -- there were often thousands of players on. So with that came a lot of trolls and assholes, of course, but they don't really stick around. I was one of the ones who stuck with novice matches until I was 3 in every class and was terrified of hitting 4 and being in regular matches because I didn't want to screw up. I didn't have a mic at the time but I listened and learned, and cooperated, which is necessary to really get enjoyment out of the game. The people who stick around are (mostly) the people who enjoy teamwork. Like, the sales suck during the time they're going on, but in with the bad are the good few who stay with the community.
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Its like panning for gold!
You get a ribbed pan, a hand full of dirt, shake the pan to raise the light weight junk up to the top, rinse the junk away and keep going until you have the heavy weight gold nuggets left in the pan. :)
P.s. Gold panning, a very Zen like hobby, if ever anyone is in Scotland, head to a stream with a pan, you should get a few bits of natural gold..
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I'm still in that sort of in-between stage. I'm very much still learning, but I'd like to think I'm a decent crewmember/pilot.
I remember when I was spectating, following new playing friend, who was on your mobula.
Well... don't get me wrong, but you DO have many things to learn. ^^
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I'm still in that sort of in-between stage. I'm very much still learning, but I'd like to think I'm a decent crewmember/pilot.
I remember when I was spectating, following new playing friend, who was on your mobula.
Well... don't get me wrong, but you DO have many things to learn. ^^
I'm totally open to any constructive criticism anyone will give me. Haven't flown the Mob much, still getting used to it.
Obligitory alibi, you know how it is.
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Well all I can tell you now, is that Duel At Dawn is not the natural enviornment for mobula.
And that bursts and lesmoks are not good for mercury. I mean, lesmoks have some use on merc, but when it comes to Dunes/Sepulcher. On Duel At Dawn it's damn useless.
I don't remember more in fact, welp. Sorry.
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Well mobulas have good top turning speed and high turning momentum. They only lack turning acceleration so bringing claw on a mobula is not necessary. I always bring kerosene hydrogen and drogue chute. The mobula falls very fast which can help you escape on high maps like northern fjords but can also be deadly. I always have the engineers bring extinguishers. If you have one of them full time on a bottom gun then chem spray can be very useful but only if they use it. I also bring an extinguisher because the pilot can jump and hit the top gun from the helm position.
The mobula's good vertical can be used as a means of tanking, however if you're up against a specialized close range ship then tanking may be your only option. This is why I always have a mine launcher for the gunner, who brings a variation of mine ammo. For close range, a merc or hades may be useless. Depending on the circumstance I have the gunner jump to the left or right wing. The right wing is more efficient because the ladder is on the right side. I have the bottom right gun an artemis for the balloon engi.
I have found the mobula to be very effective against all ships except good squids. Blender fish can also be very dangerous. Mobulas are generally not for close range so your best bet is to kill them before they get close. The mine launcher is an important defensive weapon for me. The most common loadout is double artemis but sometimes it's not enough to kill. For my merc mob I use a left side flak gat with long range ammo (lesmok or heavy). The top gunner also has the option to jump down to the flak while the gat is going. Heatsink is the best medium close light flak ammo. But yeah the mobula is best ship counters everything so OP.
Sometimes it's best to neglect repairs and keep all guns shooting to overwhelm the enemy. The balloon is most important. Even with drogue chute you still drop. Don't forget to burn plenty of kerosene!
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I have found the mobula to be very effective against all ships except good squids.
Lumberjack says hi
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I have found the mobula to be very effective against all ships except good squids.
Lumberjack says hi
Mobula says: Oh, the projectile. Let me use vent/hydro. [dodges]
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I have found the mobula to be very effective against all ships except good squids.
Lumberjack says hi
I'm assuming you're talking about lumber fish because the other lumber ships are easily countered. You may be used to inexperienced mobulas not taking drogue chute.
Merc mobs can be very effective against lumberfish due to the long easy merc range and the 2 other guns. Getting disabled is a major problem for the fish. However, a good lumberfish can gain advantage over mobulas with a good lumber gunner.
The main problems for the fish are the difficulty to hit at long range (vs mobula's ease), and the mobula's mobility. When popped the mobula will use drogue chute and hydrogen after. If I know I'm gonna get my balloon popped I often burn it out (or almost out). It can take a very long time to kill a mobula with a lumberjack, even with an excellent gunner.
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I have found the mobula to be very effective against all ships except good squids.
Lumberjack says hi
I'm assuming you're talking about lumber fish because the other lumber ships are easily countered. You may be used to inexperienced mobulas not taking drogue chute.
Merc mobs can be very effective against lumberfish due to the long easy merc range and the 2 other guns. Getting disabled is a major problem for the fish. However, a good lumberfish can gain advantage over mobulas with a good lumber gunner.
The main problems for the fish are the difficulty to hit at long range (vs mobula's ease), and the mobula's mobility. When popped the mobula will use drogue chute and hydrogen after. If I know I'm gonna get my balloon popped I often burn it out (or almost out). It can take a very long time to kill a mobula with a lumberjack, even with an excellent gunner.
You give the mobula alot of credit, to the point that you make it seem like a broken ship in itself. But what is it really bad at besides the obvious downsides? How can one exploit these downsides at all? And if it fares so well in pubs, why isnt it used as commonly as other ships?
I know a fair bit about the game, but you're the one who's been using mobula here, so if we can't discover a wide enough variety of plays and loadouts to render it ineffective and just drop cherry all over it muse might pull a nerf bat
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The most common problem with the mobula is that it's not used correctly. For the longest time I didn't really know how to use it and was very hesitant to do so outside of practice mode. I am now comfortable to bring it against any ship on most maps. I have fought some lumberfish and it's never been a challenge 1v1. For reference I don't use the meta mobula loadouts (no merc double art).
Its weakness is close range, so a good squid can be deadly and force a mobula into full tank. Blender fishes can be effective but they must close distance very fast and avoid open engagements. I have a mine launcher on 2/3 of my mobulas to defend against close range ships (not particularly effective against squids though). The gunner's three ammos are for the mine. For the merc charged heatsink loch. For hades lesmok incendiary loch (hades is on 4 slot with double art trifecta, left art is on wing).
The mobula is the quintessential long range ship because it can use 3 light guns and has excellent vertical. The mobula doesn't need a nerf, but it can be very powerful. I am confident to use mobulas against any ship for long range maps. Close range is more difficult especially against good blender fish and squids. Squids and fish are both quite tanky. Pyramidions so soft.
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The above post sums it up well but I just want to point out the biggest and most obvious weakness of the mobula, its sheer size and visibility, it is a very powerful ship and holds up very well against many ships, but is often the first ship spotted, and an easy target to aim at, if the pilot does not dodge or the crew fail to take its main components it fails, its an easy ship to loose with but a great ship to win with, with a solid crew and pilot.
But no ninja flank tactics with this ship, be prepared to be seen. :)
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The above post sums it up well but I just want to point out the biggest and most obvious weakness of the mobula, its sheer size and visibility, it is a very powerful ship and holds up very well against many ships, but is often the first ship spotted, and an easy target to aim at, if the pilot does not dodge or the crew fail to take its main components it fails, its an easy ship to loose with but a great ship to win with, with a solid crew and pilot.
But no ninja flank tactics with this ship, be prepared to be seen. :)
That means that in competetive it's almost a straight upgrade. It can't chase, but it makes up for that with the amount of possible deadly trifectas that'll probably shred you before you have a chance to escape.
And what's to say only a good squid can shake off the mobu? For one, I use squid often on pubs and I'm pretty decent with it. But on a wider scale, that is kinda unfair. Why should it take skillful use of an uncommon ship to counter the use of mobula? You can argue that its basically skill vs skill, but all mobula has to do is for the crew to have good placement and modest sniping prowess, along with some knowledge from the captain on his weapon arcs and appropriate positioning to his loadout's playstyle, which dont really take long to learn. Meanwhile, the squid relies solely on the pilot making right decisions/manouvers, which puts the pressure on him alone compared to a mobula's crew layout.I've played against Pies' mobula on dunes and he was tearing us pretty bad. I thought he hadthe match for sure when I decided to go for him one last time, and didnt realize my ally was actually focusing the mobula down with me while his junker was having trouble keeping up. Perhaps the mobula is by nature more prone to double teams than other ships, but really a competent pyra/goldfish/squid can easily react and exploit this situation.
In general, a sniping build on a mobula covers it's weaknesses. Inability to chase is replaced by a longer reach, bad turning is negated by the fact that the distance you create between the target from the start of the engagement gives you more than enough room to turn. The only reliable way to take down a sniper mobula with decent gunners and pilot seems to be through surprise attacks, which arent really reliable in their nature.
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And what's to say only a good squid can shake off the mobu? For one, I use squid often on pubs and I'm pretty decent with it. But on a wider scale, that is kinda unfair. Why should it take skillful use of an uncommon ship to counter the use of mobula? You can argue that its basically skill vs skill, but all mobula has to do is for the crew to have good placement and modest sniping prowess, along with some knowledge from the captain on his weapon arcs and appropriate positioning to his loadout's playstyle, which dont really take long to learn. Meanwhile, the squid relies solely on the pilot making right decisions/manouvers, which puts the pressure on him alone compared to a mobula's crew layout.I've played against Pies' mobula on dunes and he was tearing us pretty bad. I thought he hadthe match for sure when I decided to go for him one last time, and didnt realize my ally was actually focusing the mobula down with me while his junker was having trouble keeping up. Perhaps the mobula is by nature more prone to double teams than other ships, but really a competent pyra/goldfish/squid can easily react and exploit this situation.
In a balanced match, all the ships are good. The squid is difficult not only for the pilot but also the crew. I find main engineer on squid the most difficult and the most enjoyable. Merc mobula on dunes is OP and somewhat unfair. It's very difficult to clear so much distance while avoiding hull damage. The other maps are much more forgiving. My general feeling is that dunes is broken due to the very little cover. On a mobula against pubs I usually close distance to make things more interesting. You may have noticed that match we were fighting far north quite close to the dust wall.
My only excuse for that match is that my balloon artemis engi moved to the out of range mine launcher (never his job) to try to mine the pyra while you were respawning (pyra was fleeing). I foolishly tried to let him score a hit but it forced me to avoid the mines and lose arcs. More importantly I didn't tell him to get off it. This delayed the crucial kill long enough for you to come back in. The junker wasn't help but I'm accustomed to 2v1 in pubs. It was a good match.
Mobulas are a good target to focus down with your team.
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Mobulas are a good target to focus down with your team.
They're like a spire, but with the added bonus of being able to defend itself (vertical movement)
Speaking of which, I'm having a rather hard time trying to figure out a purpose for spire when compared to mobula. By purpose I dont mean what is it viable for, I mean, what can it do that other ships cant? For example, squid goes fast, mobula goes up and down fast, pyra rams good, galleon tanks good. But spire? turns fast. You cant use that unless youre up close, which is already risky considering how weak it is when it comes to survivability. So far I've found only these builds "unique" to the spire:
Double gat + Heavy Flak + flamer/art
Hades+Lumber+Artemis+Light Flak/Flamer/Mine
I havent looked too deep into it, so feel free to inform me of any more possible spire-exclusive combinations!
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As you know, the spire is very vulnerable to long range weapons due to its long profile making it easy to hit. One hades is enough to render a spire useless. Mercs and lumbers are also very effective. Close range dps or carronades are also deadly.
The spire does however have good turning and vertical. A well timed hydro can dodge a Pyramidion even with hydro and a buffed balloon.
The classic loadout is merc artemis flak. For flak I use a buff engi with spanner mallet buff and charged (sometimes loch). Double gat can work but it's very risky because you have no defence. Hades artemis works, you can even do double hades.
For a time I used to do a hades + lesmok gat flak spire. Two buff engi downstairs and I was a spanner mallet buff engi with a pilot tool. The hades engi had a main kit and a different pilot tool. This allowed me to buff the top deck and do hull repairs. I usually had a mine up top too (both us up top had lesmok) and the flak was spanner mallet buff lochnagar. This was mostly against charging ships.
The meta lumber is hades art lumber. Light flak is good for a quick kill, but artemis is invaluable in good hands. I used to use a light flak on top right and shoot it when their armor breaks. Now I use a mine to put in front of charging ships (my pilot ammo is always lesmok). In an emergency the gunner can move up to use the mine (lumber ammo = mine ammo). This is quite effective against slower ships like Junkers. With a good gunner you can lock down any ship except squids.
My favorite is hwatcha double art gat. Hwatcha and art on bottom, art and gat top (gat left). For longer range two art and hwatcha reliably disable and do armor damage. For closer the top engi moves to gat, or against a charging ship, I jump on gat for quadfecta. I have buff heavy for hwatcha but a gunner also works. I often see hades art hwatcha or even merc art hwatcha. Hwatcha gat mortar also works well.
I have found double art gat hwatcha to be very effective against most threats including fish and squids who can really give a spire a bad time. I've had a lot of success with this loadout and the double art hwatcha does significant damage to weaker armors while forcing lots of repairs.
My real favorite is heavy carronade double gat. Gats use heavy clip and aim for guns. A gat will break a light gun in under 2 seconds, however gat tracers don't line up exactly with where they hit. The goal is to charge fast and hard. Usually it's a good tactic to reload gat immediately when their armor breaks, but for this the gats constantly shoot. It only takes about 3 gat clips to kill a pyra. I have two main kit engineers with a gunner. The reason for the gunner is shooting charged or heatsink into guns/engines for additional shatter damage. I like using it against metamidions. It can be highly effective against poor Junkers.
Blender fish can be quite effective against spires due to their ability to take damage while charging fast, popping balloon, and ramming. Ships fall at a rate determined by their vertical speed (not sure the exact), so spires fall fast and the bottom spike makes them very vulnerable to hitting the ground. Carronade flame pyras are similarly very effective.
A tactic I love to counter this with is both hydro and drogue chute. Hydro before they pop your balloon, then drogue and keep shooting. The decision whether to bring kero or claw is situational but I usually prefer claw.
Another tactic that is useful on ships like mobulas and spires is to disregard repairs and keep shooting to overwhelm the target, even if your armor is down.
"No repairs! No cowards!"
To sum up I love spires but they are easily countered by range. They aren't seen is competitive due to this. Flash a spire and the other team will bring a hades.
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A buffed loch cannonade will also one-shot a spire's hull, making for possibly the fastest kill you can get in the game if you follow with a Blenderfish ram.
And we are so off-topic right now.
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Another fun build is buff loch merc + buff loch heavy flak. The buff loch merc can 1 shot spires, fish, and squids.
1 shot armor break, 1 shot kill.
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Another fun build is buff loch merc + buff loch heavy flak. The buff loch merc can 1 shot spires, fish, and squids.
1 shot armor break, 1 shot kill.
Yes, this build is such fun! :)
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1. DEAR GOD WHAT HAVE I DONE?
2. We are horribly off topic
3. I'm gonna have to write these down...
4. I think my positioning is what I need to work on more than anything for the Mob. I knew about "No repairs! No cowards!" tactics, in fact I employ them. Some of your advice I knew, and others I didn't and those are greatly appreciated!
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As far as I remember, you seem to panic while positioning...
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As far as I remember, you seem to panic while positioning...
Yeah... I think I do OK at first, but then we come under fire and I'm like "Oh shit gotta move" and kinda panic, or when someone gets behind me and I know damage is imminent, I panic... TBH, the only class I don't panic on is Gunner.
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Don't panic, in your mobula you can use your excellent balloon and quick speed to avoid fire. The only thing you need worry about are squids and blender fish. Never be afraid to burn kero, it's a very important tool.
One reaction is to move down and burn kero to avoid fire. I'd recommend having a flame up on the right wing for the gunner to go to. This position can aim up very well and harass, it's where I put my mine. Just make sure not to forget about the top engine. Once you get a good position you can hydro up to use your other guns. On a high map like fjords you can survive a very long time by staying underneath. Watch out for weapons like hades though.
Going up is another tactic to avoid fire, however pilots usually bring hydro so it generally buys you less time. But being above is usually an advantage. Whether I go up or down is situational, but remember that most guns shoot better down. And your armor is on the top so moving down exposes you. A large amount of shots will hit the balloon if you're high.
My reaction is usually to dodge and burn towards a charging ship to quickly avoid arcs. Start your turn early and get ready for all guns. Using your balloon is generally only a means of tanking so you need to rely on superior positioning and your [flame] to get out of a tanking position. Know what they are doing and turn and burn accordingly.
I have my keys remapped so map is C. I tap it to see where a ship under or above is pointing/turning. The throttle keys are very annoying because it's often crucial to quickly change direction. I'd recommend a mouse with side buttons you can quickly tap with your thumb. You can find cheap gaming mouses online.
If you need to quickly go down but your balloon is damaged just burn it out and drop like a rock. Use drogue chute when necessary. Make sure to immediately turn it off when your balloon is rebuilt because it reduces thrust.
If your balloon will get popped very soon burn hydro. Sometimes it's good to burn it all the way out and start using drogue, other times leave some balloon. Be careful not to lose arcs because carronades can still aim up well. It's often useful to use hydro as soon as your balloon is rebuilt.
Moving up and down can be used to dodge long range gunners. Moving up will often cause them to hit your balloon. This will mess up your gunners too so be sure to tell them what you're doing. In general try to stay still for your gunners.
The merc mob can out range basically anything so make sure to use that advantage. I dislike double artemis because it kills slow and is kinda cheesy. The Ducks call them cheese mobs. I much prefer a lesmok (or heavy) light flak and gat on the left side. I used to do a left side banshee carro with heavy clip. Heavy makes the banshee accurate at longer ranges and is excellent on carro.
In sniping matches find cover that you can use to duck behind to repair. Against brawler ships pick a place with lots of open space. Move backwards when they come for you. Burning kero can buy you more time, then move up or down and fix engines. This may make your turn slower so judge the situation.
If you're fighting a merc mob try to take out their merc first. Whoever does the first disable is usually the winner. A common loadout is an engi on top so they can repair faster than a gunner, or carry a buff hammer (or spanner mallet buff).
If you're fighting a double merc you must expose yourself to theirs. As long as no one else is shooting you can just keep shooting because double merc takes much longer to kill than your loadout (and an artemis is a much better disable weapon). If you need repairs you can dodge them. Another option is using your merc and other gun while the engi tanks the hull.
Against Pyramidions I'd highly recommend having your merc only aim for armor (unless you can shoot their engines). Trying to aim for guns can cause you to hit the balloon. Pyramidions have mediocre armor and hull so you need to do as much armor damage as quick as possible. Try to aim for the lower part of the ship.
Always give out loadouts. Your engineers should probably bring fire extinguishers. For the merc gunner ammo you might want lesmok charged heatsink. The lesmok and heatsink are for the flamethrower. Make sure your gunner doesn't use lesmok on merc because 1 shot every 6 seconds is nothing. Also I'd really recommend bringing a fire extinguisher. You can jump and put the top gun out and if it's safe you can go extinguish the main engine.
Always start turning early and check their position. Try to have as much open space to engage with as possible. This doesn't necessarily mean camping, but move around and experiment with different positions on the map. Having vertical cover is very useful.