Author Topic: I haven't crazy king in ages  (Read 15904 times)

Offline Arturo Sanchez

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I haven't crazy king in ages
« on: December 16, 2014, 05:34:18 am »
I don't know if its just the rarity of 3 v 3 or that no one ever plays them.

But I haven't seen crazy king in a while barring 1 or 2 times in 2 weeks. And When a3 v 3 does come up deathmatch maps do keep appearing. I recall back on the lobby days, that crazy king maps do appear (as an option to vote) every 2 matches or so. What happened?

Also is there a posibility of a 3 point 2 v 2 crazy king map? Just get my fix.

Are there also plans for 4 v 4 maps? I mean that mode only has 3 choices.

Offline Squidslinger Gilder

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Re: I haven't crazy king in ages
« Reply #1 on: December 16, 2014, 07:15:51 am »
Well it all depends if people queue up for 3v3s. Likely most don't. This is a big reason I don't really play anymore. I like 3v3s. Sure there are some but I want consistency. 2v2s are very dull to me. I'd sit in 3v3 lobbies for hours at times till they filled. Can't do that anymore.

2v2 CK maps would help. This has been asked many times. I forget why Muse doesn't. I know they answered it awhile back.

As for the 4v4s, its all about demand. 4v4s are rarely if ever played. Plus they also max out the engine. In the past if you took multiple galleons on 4v4s you could literally cripple the game, so another reason why it isn't played. Ultimately, 4v4s are fun from time to time but after you play them awhile you realize there really isn't much strategy to it. Maps are huge so sniper boats flourish. Lots of standoff battles. Then CK battles often come down to spawns and high speed ships. Flanking happens but the risk of getting caught in a 3v1 is higher. Just isn't all that interesting. 3v3 is where you see the perfect balance. Where all types of ships can function together and it is encouraged to take them. Pilots able to think and plan ahead benefit more. 2v2 in comparison is just too limited. All the engagements are the same. There is little to mix things up and it gets worse as you get into competitive play.

Offline Arturo Sanchez

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Re: I haven't crazy king in ages
« Reply #2 on: December 16, 2014, 08:02:42 am »
I'm curious how the game coded when it changes my preferences to get me in a match.

Does it go down the line of.


Lets say I pick 4 v 4 crazy king.

Does it go. No crazy king 4 v 4> No king of the hill 4 v 4> No death match 4 v 4>
No 3 v 3 crazy king> No 3 v 3 king of the hill> No 3 v 3 DM
No 2 v 2 king of the hill> yes 2 v 2 death match.

If the queuing system looks through active games like that I should see more 3 v 3 happening. But it feels like this isn't how it works. I think it prioritises game mode as opposed to catering to the player numbers preference.

I dun mind playing DM 3 v 3 at first. Because there's a chance I'll get crazy king on rematch.

Offline Caprontos

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Re: I haven't crazy king in ages
« Reply #3 on: December 16, 2014, 09:37:51 am »
Its probably a population issue..  When there is more people there are more bigger games.. and when not there are more 2v2's.. Its usually been that way. When I did my 4v4 and 3v3 map logs during the match list time it took weeks to get some of them just because no one played them. Usually got them during sales..

Offline macmacnick

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Re: I haven't crazy king in ages
« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2014, 12:33:34 am »
I always thought matchmaking would have been a quick-join replacement, with the match-list as the more full-fledged, a la carte option. Then we got this. 3v3s, which pre-matchmaking, we had usually at least one going on in the list during most parts of the day, with the occasional 4v4, and several 2v2s, all of them varied game modes, going on all day. Then we get matchmaking. 3v3s? maybe three to five times a week, not counting custom lobbies. 4v4s? Only once in a blue moon, and with that, almost exclusively deathmatch. Want to play crazy king, or King of the hill? Cross your fingers, it's probably not going to happen. Want the tactical maneuvers and team coordination? That'll happen in 3v3s. not 2v2s, as it's pretty impractical in a 2v2 deathmatch. Muse! Next patch, reimplement the match list back in! but keep matchmaking, and see how popular each is. Put the two options side by side, and show them to the player once they press "Play". Explain the differences, such as for matchmaking, a quicker, faster match and turnaround time, while the match list system has a more in-depth gameplay aspect, socialization, communication and thoughtful tactics, and just plain fun organized stuff. And not just the current lobby type added back with a list, the old lobbies, where you had gentlemen's agreements on when to ready up, no force-starting by the game, and lasting lobbies and the option of lasting crew pairings or groupings, with the option of people to PICK WHO THEY WANT TO PLAY WITH! The complaints about stacking by the newer players were not because all of us veteran players like pub stomping, but because of the folly of the novices, wandering into a higher-levelled match, without a thought of what they might experience. Matches that which happened to have a weaker, or less coordinated team on the other side, due to veteran players wanting to play with friends or people who communicate. Then, a percentage of them come here, complain about it, blaming us, the veteran players for their own mistakes. Eventually all these complaints, along with the inability for the servers to cope under sale-sized loads of player traffic, lead to the implementation of matchmaking, which decreases the overall competence level per match, and throws us veterans into it, with only a few competent players, usually at most one or maybe two, to a ship, with the not so competent or unwilling to learn and/or listen players also, dragging the games down, leading to a spiral down into madness. And to add insult to injury, we get a half-assed way of replacing the custom game mechanic, which uses the same UI as the matchmaker, having confusing language, and if we want to get everyone of high levels to play with, we have to track them down, or get carpal tunnel from clicking and typing in quick bursts, enduring menus to add people to a hard-to-navigate friends list just to get a shadowy facsimile of the old functionality and joy of the true lobbies of icarus experience, to set up custom matches with friends , among other things, We get an inconvenient location for featured matches, which worked best at the top of a match list, and a horribly unintuitive way to set up and join custom matches or lobbies for events such as those for the competitive scene. Not to mention that matchmaking made the community driven weekly matches and events into an extinct breed, as it became practically impossible to fill up and start up anything, such as the Iron Fork of Friday or Merry Men Mine Madness Monday events.


On top of that, the matchmaker does not do the sort of balancing we were promised. We were promised that it would not be too different than it was before. It was drastically different. The quality of play went into the toilet. Anything besides Deathmatches became practically extinct. 2v2s became pretty much the only commonly played game size. Want to socialize with the other team and other players on your team while in a lobby? Sorry, not possible any more, you will have to deal with either a party or setting up a teamspeak/mumble and trying to get everyone to join it. Muse, just put back in match lists, and let the player base decide and the numbers tell you which is preferred.

Offline Arturo Sanchez

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Re: I haven't crazy king in ages
« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2014, 04:38:47 am »
Its probably a population issue..  When there is more people there are more bigger games.. and when not there are more 2v2's.. Its usually been that way. When I did my 4v4 and 3v3 map logs during the match list time it took weeks to get some of them just because no one played them. Usually got them during sales..

Back in the day there was a finesse to setting up  3 v 3 and 4  v 4.

You set up for at least full caps and AI crew. And then people start leaking in mid match and by the end of that first  match. You got a full compliment of players jumping into the obviously active game.

Issue with that is the scrubs joining in mid game and fking everything up. Just some idiot powder monkey where you already have a decent 1.


Here is a feature to offset that. When someone clicks a game, they are forced to come in with a reccomended build (if there isn't one they join as is). In order of the build slots.

e.g. 1st slot fills when you have a full AI crew and your first player joins replacing 1 AI.
2nd slot is filled when there is already 1 player and 2 AI.
3rd slot is for the last crew member to join replacing the last AI.



But with the current system you can't pull something like that. With the minimum 10 ppl thing to join queue you run 2 issues.

1. getting the people.
2. people finding the game.

and yes mac. I did think of that system as the more ideal. The whole custom games seen only by your friend is just silliness. Why use that if I can just go into my social tab, find someone playing and click join crew?
« Last Edit: December 17, 2014, 04:49:21 am by Ceresbane »

Offline Squidslinger Gilder

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Re: I haven't crazy king in ages
« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2014, 05:24:46 am »
Sad to say that I miss GOIO less and less the longer it goes with these issues unresolved. MM is a necessity for PS4 integration, but yeah, its not in a form that really anyone wanted. You can concede a match list to some degree if other features work, but they don't. However if certain ship changes come to pass, I might be inclined to hop on again.

Offline HamsterIV

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Re: I haven't crazy king in ages
« Reply #7 on: December 17, 2014, 12:45:15 pm »
Sure blame the console monkeys. They haven't even joined our ranks and they are already more culpable than Shink. I look at the possible influx of console monkeys to demonstrate the glory of PC gaming. This will be the first game I have played where console and PC builds will be playing on the same servers.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2014, 01:13:14 pm by HamsterIV »

Offline Admiral Ackbar RTDT

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Re: I haven't crazy king in ages
« Reply #8 on: December 17, 2014, 04:09:05 pm »
I think if the maps were labeled if it was Crazy King, King of the Hill or Death Match when you are voting for maps it may help with this problem. I would love to play more Crazy Kings but I keep forgetting which maps are Crazy Kings.

Offline Replaceable

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Re: I haven't crazy king in ages
« Reply #9 on: December 17, 2014, 06:45:40 pm »
Today I had a 4v4 crazy king.

Lasted 1 hour.
My wrist hurt.
I was at ~11 fps throughout.
Got 99 buffs.

Also we came back from initially being like 150+ points down.

It was great. But terrible for those who have no time to play.

Offline Arturo Sanchez

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Re: I haven't crazy king in ages
« Reply #10 on: December 17, 2014, 07:57:05 pm »
casuals should play casual games.

this is a game you clear a good portion of your day's schedule for.

admiral.... the maps ARE labelled.

Offline Admiral Ackbar RTDT

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Re: I haven't crazy king in ages
« Reply #11 on: December 17, 2014, 08:43:00 pm »
casuals should play casual games.

this is a game you clear a good portion of your day's schedule for.

admiral.... the maps ARE labelled.

They are labeled after you have decided which one to play but not when you are voting on which to play next.

Offline Crafeksterty

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Re: I haven't crazy king in ages
« Reply #12 on: December 18, 2014, 12:38:22 am »
That was a big gripe with me. I know which levels are what but no one else does so they vote for labyrinth instead of paritian...

Offline Indreams

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Re: I haven't crazy king in ages
« Reply #13 on: December 18, 2014, 06:09:35 am »
That was a big gripe with me. I know which levels are what but no one else does so they vote for labyrinth instead of paritian...

I make that mistake all the time when I pick duel at dawn thinking that I picked the battle on the dunes.

Than I'm at dawn with a long-range mobula against a metamidion...


Btw, Crazy King is my favorite game mode. It's pretty much unique to GOIO, and it really sucks that I don't get to play much Crazy King. (Although, I haven't gotten to play GOIO at all recently. I need to finish up my college apps)

Offline SnaG

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Re: I haven't crazy king in ages
« Reply #14 on: December 18, 2014, 06:39:41 am »
I do see crazy king 3v3s and 4v4s in the new system, just not more than once every day or few days; the crux of the issue being that they are often too filled with new players who either do not fully understand the concept of crazy king, or cannot sustain the effort though an often  >30min game when they start to lose, and just end up leaving. Since these matches are created by the mm, they all too often are filled with mostly new players, which is often less than fun for them, as it highlights the game as boring and drawn out. It also means that 3v3s and 4v4s are only created at times of high player population which (at 11:03am GMT) stands at 88 people.

This brings me to my issue with the mm in general: if there are 88 players online, then the matchmaker is governing over a very small pool of players, which leads me to believe that in order to fill matches effectively, the mm has little choice over which players go where, and hence the lobbies are very mixed, experience wise. So why is a lobby list inappropriate? Sure, in sale times when there are 1-2k people ig then it makes perfect sense, since the lobby list would be massive mess. But the ig population is not this. In the evenings I see maybe 200 people online - a list is still preferable by far imo. I shall explain.

The thing that made the match list system so great, was that a lobby may start with similar people as the mm generates, but it matures - the more experienced players tended to stick around, and the less-so would eventually filter out, leaving a lobby of high quality players. This meant there was usually one or two visible lobbies of very high quality players, where you could happily spend a few hours to a whole night. These lobbies would also often migrate to 3v3s and 4v4s. With the mm, the lobby is terminated after 3 matches, often just as it starts becoming mostly high-end players.

It there no way the match list can be used in tandem with the mm? I have seen explanations from the devs arguing that such things would further defeat the balance of the mm created lobbies, but experienced players do not want an unfair game, and will move around the lobby to achieve a balance - but here comes another thing. We are blocked from switching to the other team in the lobby except though spectator (which may be filled), therefore blocking us from achieving balance ourselves. Again I see how newer players may want to be on the winning side, therefore making it necessary, but for experienced long-time players? Please Muse, we do not need a baby gate. Trust the regulars to be able to manage ourselves, help the newer players.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2014, 06:41:17 am by SnaG »