So can I join the big boys yet

[Arturo Sanchez]

I think I've proven time and time and again that I'm not a scrub.

But I can't seem to get in any matches with the big bad MLG guys. I know there's the sunday skirmish and all but surely you play at other times.

I really do wanna get into the big tourneys and finally play some real high level play. As is I'll just stagnate with these middling level pub matches and end up with terrible bad habits catered to taking on lower leveled players who seem to be my usual opponents.

Even trained up a few pups to build up into a killing machines and etc. But... those guys tend to die out and burn out eventually.
And I feel like I could learn so much more than I could actually teach.

(and no I dun wanna join another clan)

[Squidslinger Gilder]

heh heh, MLG. :rolleyes:

Honestly the fastest and probably best thing you can do is join a clan or community which is involved in the events. They're already established and you'll be brought up to speed faster.

But if you don't want to, then you need to build one from scratch. Some of the clans are ones who started from just a handful of people. Heck we started with just 2 pilots and then added more with time. But you won't be getting into competitive over night. Look for at least a month or two build up time as you recruit and train members. If you just entered on a whim, you'd likely get your butt whipped and lose all your members.

Just get some people, and when event signups open, enter. Pay attention to community announcements too so you know when they're coming. Most events are announced weeks to months in advance. Aerodrome event had at least 3 months advance warning with private and public development periods and a streamer special show.

Thats all there is to it, be active, build your team. Then enter when something is announced. There isn't any MLG clubhouse around here.

[Dementio]

To add to what Gilder already stated, you could also start small by just offering to sub for random clans/teams in events such as SCS or just get 4 people going and join another 4 people and make a team out of that. I think SPQR started that way, one ship Holy Celestium Order and the other the SPQR part.

[Replaceable]

1: Identify clans you consider to be 'MLG'
2: Go on their clan page, via community or a players profile.
3: Add a bunch of people from that clan to your friend list.
4: Everytime you play, join them.

But the 'big boys' or whatever play pubs a fair bit, it's usually highly unfair for the other team but _{that's a story for another day.}

Back on topic, I only join on games of people I know, this guarantees they know how to play to a high standard.

And if your interested in competing  in tournaments etc. but don't want to join another clan, set up a team in your current clan, and get practising! (contact other clans for organised practice, most will be happy to arrange something. )

Best of luck to you on any endeavours you dare to take.

(As for MLG clubhouses, I know I've been to invite only lobbies, the elitism was too real every pub match I played at the time was so stacked though, least it stops people from scar(/r)ing the new kids :p)

[DJ Logicalia]

Make friends! Before The Bards joined the competitive scene, I was on a team with a bunch of random people from different clans. It was fun! Either that or do what The Bards are doing now and ally with another clan, so you can have one [AI] ship and one [?] ship. It's easier that way, sometimes

[Arturo Sanchez]

As I see it if you are intimidated by the skill gap you shouldn't play a game that is inherently competitive.

I hail from an old school arcade culture. You don't play to win. You play to get better. If you so happen to play at a level better than others? So what? There is always a person that's better. Set a greater benchmark

However these better players can be dragged down by their team's weakest member. Hence competitive play for this is fascinating.

I completely forget where i was going with this.

I think its along the lines of, everything is a learning experience. But you can only learn so much from inherent incompetence before you stagnate into bad habits of compensating for them.

And by having the desire to merely win results in that. As the loss is all they gained from it. Never once did they consider the objective factors that built up to it.

If a player is adamant on wanton ignorance. I frankly have nothing (new) to ever learn from them.

[Squidslinger Gilder]

Clans need almost constant influx of players to remain in competitions. Real life happens. It is just a fact of life. I've ran guilds in MMOs for years. You can only go so long before you need to dedicate time to recruiting. Even your most dedicated members will eventually move on or have real life happen.

This is where it gets guild leaders down is because it is a never ending routine for them to keep guilds active and competitive while players come and go. Clans are the same in GOIO. I doubt any team right now has all their original members active or at the very least, their best teams still together. We've gone through probably a half dozen rotations now. While we've had winning teams in the past, its just impossible to keep them going perpetually. Folks have moved on. Which is a shame because there is a lot of great players who stopped playing for various reasons.

I'd start with entering less competitive events or running scrims with other clans. Get to see what it takes for competitive play.  Like they said, join in on events which permit individuals or single ship joining. Competitive GOIO is very fluid. It changes with every patch and sometimes drastically. You have to have players practicing all the time. There are teams which have quit the game because of it. Good teams too, not scrubs. One of the reasons some folks here feel MLG was dumb. To be MLG you need a solid game to start with and while GOIO has a lot of potential, its not going to attract huge press as it is. Game is too buggy and imbalanced. Not to say it won't change to a point where it could be MLG. But Muse has a lot to work on. Got COOP, PS4, balancing, Adventure...list goes on. It would take time and resources and a shift in focus to developing the game as an MLG game. Just don't see it happening, not with their small team.

[Arturo Sanchez]

Clans need almost constant influx of players to remain in competitions. Real life happens. It is just a fact of life. I've ran guilds in MMOs for years. You can only go so long before you need to dedicate time to recruiting. Even your most dedicated members will eventually move on or have real life happen.

This is where it gets guild leaders down is because it is a never ending routine for them to keep guilds active and competitive while players come and go. Clans are the same in GOIO. I doubt any team right now has all their original members active or at the very least, their best teams still together. We've gone through probably a half dozen rotations now. While we've had winning teams in the past, its just impossible to keep them going perpetually. Folks have moved on. Which is a shame because there is a lot of great players who stopped playing for various reasons.

I'd start with entering less competitive events or running scrims with other clans. Get to see what it takes for competitive play.  Like they said, join in on events which permit individuals or single ship joining. Competitive GOIO is very fluid. It changes with every patch and sometimes drastically. You have to have players practicing all the time. There are teams which have quit the game because of it. Good teams too, not scrubs. One of the reasons some folks here feel MLG was dumb. To be MLG you need a solid game to start with and while GOIO has a lot of potential, its not going to attract huge press as it is. Game is too buggy and imbalanced. Not to say it won't change to a point where it could be MLG. But Muse has a lot to work on. Got COOP, PS4, balancing, Adventure...list goes on. It would take time and resources and a shift in focus to developing the game as an MLG game. Just don't see it happening, not with their small team.

As the clan leader of AI. I know that feel. I have recruited some amazing players. Often times very gifted new players that simply fell out of love with the game. But if they were given enough time, they could easily surpass many of the current leading players.

A rather simple filter ingress of recruits but don't filter egress. They can leave or join other clans as they please. I think the major thing that makes them leave is the lack of regular members to play with (which is understably begging the question what's even the point of the clan with no active members?) But frankly I refuse lower my standards seeing as they aren't even all that strict to begin with.

(if you obviously read the manual, did the tutorials and asks some questions about certain tricks and demonstrate this understanding you are in-its not that strict its the basic requirement for a decent guns player).

I think I would be fine as a sort of mercenary player that joins other teams and clans for skirmishes. After all in the grand scheme of things. I'm playing for own betterment rather than a clan's.

I think I'll register my clan, because even if I'm the only major active member, I think it deserves its place to be identifiable. But I'll not be expecting much from it (just like the various noob clan leaders on the forum that think clan members come jumping at the chance to join an unestablished clan)


As for the whole not joining competitive matches. I've been doing that for awhile. Theres even an unwritten rule I follow when playing as the AI clan leader. If 2 AI are on one ship.

They do not lose. Because frankly public matches aren't all that much of a challenge. It's a battle of who has the better grasp of the fundamentals. So frankly, sure for the sake of merely playing I would do that (not like i have that much choice alot of the time). But if I want to get better, I'll never do it playing like this.

[Skrimskraw]

sunday skirmish is not and will never be mlg

[Kamoba]

This game has a tightly knit community and as long as you're willing to chat have a laugh and try your best it is not that hard to make friends with the bigger boys, and "stalking" (for want of a better word) is the best way to meet those big time players, spot who is doing well what names are winning the most add them as a friend an start jumping on their ship or in their games. You'll find people will remember your name just for playing with you, and your clan name is distinctive so, bonus.
You'll start noticing more custom lobbies while you do this, filled to the brim with players, password on the door? PM the player you're "stalking" and ask if there's room for more, unless it's a pre arranged event more often than not they'll be happy to share and fill the spots.


For mid-range competitive games, look out for the lols, Isla is a lovely lady who often starts custom lobbies that fill with players at our skill/level range, very friendly always fun games, though you'll sometimes find silly matches there too!

[Squidslinger Gilder]

Well with clans/guilds there are typically 2 schools of thought for attracting members...

Those who invite everyone and anyone. Very open communities. And those that operate more word of mouth or closed groups.

Both have pros and cons. Personally, I've found the closed groups are better. Open groups tend to invite more problem members than not. I've literally predicted the collapse of about a half dozen guilds in MMOs just because I'd seen it so many times before. The same mistakes happening. Always with huge groups who invited everyone. Those groups tend to get so big that they implode. Tons of drama. Exclusive internal groups forming, usually formed by the core leadership who doesn't want to bother with managing everyone. Folks don't like that kind of behavior because even if they suck, they want to feel like they could actually be apart of the guild. So then strife happens and eventually splits. Mega guild implodes on itself and splinters apart.

Theres one of these in SWTOR right now that I'm watching. Well two, but the first one is the one I know will collapse. They were the worst reputation guild on the server. If you had one join your group, most groups would instant vote kick them. Yes, they were that bad. Then they changed their guild name. Many knew it but the general public didn't. Then when conquest hit, they basically snatched up tons of players for their conquest and did not care who. Quantity over quality, which is how their reputation got so poor before the name change. Unfortunately the Conquest system benefits more from this. So they conquered a few worlds and all but the guild has an internal structure which is heavily splintered already. Got multiple communities within it's own. 90% of them are bad players and ones that won't be accepted anywhere else. The good ones they have get trashed by the rest of the server because the 90% has tarnished the reputation so much.

That is just the trouble when you don't screen people or you just recruit anyone and everyone that you see. Sadly for some reason a lot of MMO players and even players in general feel that they need to be apart of a huge community thinking its better. Well no, its not...think of it this way. Would you rather go to Disneyland on an off day when the park is more empty and you can go on all the rides you want with friends/family? Or would you rather go on a peak holiday and have to deal with every obnoxious rage filled brat who has been standing in lines all day for a ride that only lasts a few minutes tops? Greater numbers does not mean better. It just means more of a chance you'll clash with someone or have to put up with people who you'd never get along with ever.

[macmacnick]

I, for one, feel that some GOIO clans fall in-between the two, Gilder, for example, Cake. Cake accepts everyone, provided they fit a Reeeeeeeallllyyyyy small requirement, which would, in this case, be competence and communication. No competence/communication, then they cannot join. Anyone who has a brain and knows how to use chat and is willing to learn can join.

[Arturo Sanchez]

My filtering policy is only one notch above that (maybe? tho it could be the same).

Its more show me what you got. If it impresses me. You get an invite. This is usually how gunners and engies get invited, it's quite rare to find an untapped prodigy pilot.

The rare times people ask to join. I test them out with a 1 v 1 dog fight (this is usually where I get my pilots) in sandbox with many handicaps on myself (like I don't play cheese or ever let ai go full repair and I play a squid).

After all it would be kinda embarrassing for an AI to not know how to utilize AI.

That or they go through my patented Ceresbane's school of piloting. If they get high marks. They get an invite (plus I get teaching exp)

I guess I value competence over all. The communication? Well the game informs you so much that crewmen telling you anything gets redundant (boy do I hate dem backseat pilots). Only thing I ever find useful is people informing me of ships at my blind spots.

It's useful, but when I've played with gents and cakes and what have you. We never needed to say anything unless it was needed to be said. Like a target being picked, a part being prioritized, gambits being employed. The rest is just common sense or is easily readable by the behavior of the player/ship.

And that comes with the common sense that comes with competent crewmanship.


As such. I might have a list of 20 something inactive members. But when all is said and done. I know these crew members will keep to the AI's unwritten rule.

When 2 are on a ship. They seldom lose (barring exceptions like trolls and exceptional idiots)

[Squidslinger Gilder]

And Cake already went through a rough period. It looked very hairy for a few but Cake has a stronger core. They learned some things, improved, and came out better for it. However, they gotta perpetually be aware of the risks that open communities can get. Just if something does happen, I wouldn't be that worried about them unless there was some major split among their members.

Another factor however, is the fact that the GOIO community is small. It is also more active and personal. Clans converse with each other, clash with each other, and maintain a more public presence than MMOs. This has a lot to do with the forums here. The activity level is higher because everything runs through them. People have gotten used to that. MMOs portray themselves as a social gaming experience when in fact once players join guilds, they are more prone to only hanging with guildies rather than the public players. There is no need for forums or talking with other guilds as the guild generally handles all of that themselves through their own site/etc. GOIO sees some of this, but overall it isn't as bad.

All of that can fuel implosions even more since MMO players always have a concept of "the grass is always greener," with other guilds in the back of their minds. People can be easily coaxed and poached from guilds. Then you have the guild hoppers who jump from guild to guild for whatever reason. Much of the time to steal items or loot.

For how social the games are, MMO players are some of the most selfish groups in gaming. I've ran Raiding guilds or been on major raid teams. When you hit endgame in MMOs there is either raids or PVP. People like to fantasize about social aspects and becoming friends with people all over the world, but that only holds up for so long. This is why RP servers are better if you want to find friendlier, less selfish, players. They tend to not be completely focused on endgame or PVP. Their desire to play is not dependent on what is offered by the game company or by how maxed out they can make their toons.

I currently run a semi hardcore Ops guild on an RP server. The skill level of the players is sometimes lower than PVE servers, but problem players are fewer. The only major split we had was about 2 years ago...started by a group of hardcore Ops players in the community. I merged them in a year or two prior when their guild disbanded. We had ran with many of them and we had liked them. Then when their guild collapsed, we kindly took them in. Bout a year later, their leader took a bunch and up and left. I knew the guy, I even had made him a Co-GM. Just suddenly I'm out of town and the post is made, he took his little core group, then coaxed a bunch of others with him. Didn't even have the nerve to say it himself, made one of his buddies do it for him.

I would have let him go if he had came to me. In fact I made him a deal back when he merged his people in. If they ever wanted to leave and restart their guild, we'd give them our blessing and even do whatever we could to help them get back on their feet. So yeah, he royally stabbed us in the back. I lost a lot of people I considered "friends." Even the people he coaxed to go with him weren't happy. they didn't think it was right. But he lied to them, told them stories. It was the same crap I had seen over a dozen times in WoW/etc over the years. Same story too. All of them ended the same way. In fact, that was my parting message to them. "Within 6 months, maybe a year, you guys will collapse."

Then about 2 months later (think it was about a month before people got angry), it happened. Later on I found out why. He showed his true colors. Told all of them that they were scum and unworthy of being on the core Ops team. Then he took those guys and switched servers. Left the ones who were tricked behind. He even cleaned out of guild bank of one of his allies and left their guild creditless before leaving. The ones left behind then formed a guild of their own up and actually have become quite good.

See with GOIO and all the clans having to interact with each other on here, there is a clear picture of what everyone offers. The "grass is greener" principle isn't as embedded. That guy that stabbed me in the back, would not have had it so easy convincing people had they not already had a concept of greed in their minds. Thinking they'd be better off under him elsewhere. That they'd progress faster or get more goodies sooner. In GOIO we don't have medals or awards, or items which make our ships hit harder. The difference between top clans and struggling clans is not based on gear or talent. If you can follow commands, work with others, and have a decent net connection, you can be a pro GOIO player.

In fact I rarely see people changing clans in GOIO as I would in MMOs. When they do I don't see the major, screw people over, mentality as I do in MMOs.

[Arturo Sanchez]

TL;DR

Guns of Icarus has no economy. Hence back stabbing is highly ineffective and socio-tactically asinine, as it serves no purpose. While mmos and various pay to win or even games with natural player progression that differentiates levels right down to a gameplay level... does favour selfish behaviour as it emphasizes the individual and not the team.

But then again Rydrs. The famous chieve whoring clan, many would want to join then if them as the achievements grinding they did was a major part of lvling up in-game at some point. With their numbers and this collective attitude... If I werent leader of AI I would probably be a rydr.

When it comes down to it, people want to join the clan of winners. Unless yu're in these friendship clans that noobies make that very quickly disband after losing enough morale with loss after loss.

funny how close friends really just how "close" they really are as they demonstrate an obvious lack of synergy. and upon realization of that, the clan disbands and the players within mostly quit.