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So can I join the big boys yet

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Squidslinger Gilder:
Well with clans/guilds there are typically 2 schools of thought for attracting members...

Those who invite everyone and anyone. Very open communities. And those that operate more word of mouth or closed groups.

Both have pros and cons. Personally, I've found the closed groups are better. Open groups tend to invite more problem members than not. I've literally predicted the collapse of about a half dozen guilds in MMOs just because I'd seen it so many times before. The same mistakes happening. Always with huge groups who invited everyone. Those groups tend to get so big that they implode. Tons of drama. Exclusive internal groups forming, usually formed by the core leadership who doesn't want to bother with managing everyone. Folks don't like that kind of behavior because even if they suck, they want to feel like they could actually be apart of the guild. So then strife happens and eventually splits. Mega guild implodes on itself and splinters apart.

Theres one of these in SWTOR right now that I'm watching. Well two, but the first one is the one I know will collapse. They were the worst reputation guild on the server. If you had one join your group, most groups would instant vote kick them. Yes, they were that bad. Then they changed their guild name. Many knew it but the general public didn't. Then when conquest hit, they basically snatched up tons of players for their conquest and did not care who. Quantity over quality, which is how their reputation got so poor before the name change. Unfortunately the Conquest system benefits more from this. So they conquered a few worlds and all but the guild has an internal structure which is heavily splintered already. Got multiple communities within it's own. 90% of them are bad players and ones that won't be accepted anywhere else. The good ones they have get trashed by the rest of the server because the 90% has tarnished the reputation so much.

That is just the trouble when you don't screen people or you just recruit anyone and everyone that you see. Sadly for some reason a lot of MMO players and even players in general feel that they need to be apart of a huge community thinking its better. Well no, its not...think of it this way. Would you rather go to Disneyland on an off day when the park is more empty and you can go on all the rides you want with friends/family? Or would you rather go on a peak holiday and have to deal with every obnoxious rage filled brat who has been standing in lines all day for a ride that only lasts a few minutes tops? Greater numbers does not mean better. It just means more of a chance you'll clash with someone or have to put up with people who you'd never get along with ever.

macmacnick:
I, for one, feel that some GOIO clans fall in-between the two, Gilder, for example, Cake. Cake accepts everyone, provided they fit a Reeeeeeeallllyyyyy small requirement, which would, in this case, be competence and communication. No competence/communication, then they cannot join. Anyone who has a brain and knows how to use chat and is willing to learn can join.

Arturo Sanchez:
My filtering policy is only one notch above that (maybe? tho it could be the same).

Its more show me what you got. If it impresses me. You get an invite. This is usually how gunners and engies get invited, it's quite rare to find an untapped prodigy pilot.

The rare times people ask to join. I test them out with a 1 v 1 dog fight (this is usually where I get my pilots) in sandbox with many handicaps on myself (like I don't play cheese or ever let ai go full repair and I play a squid).

After all it would be kinda embarrassing for an AI to not know how to utilize AI.

That or they go through my patented Ceresbane's school of piloting. If they get high marks. They get an invite (plus I get teaching exp)

I guess I value competence over all. The communication? Well the game informs you so much that crewmen telling you anything gets redundant (boy do I hate dem backseat pilots). Only thing I ever find useful is people informing me of ships at my blind spots.

It's useful, but when I've played with gents and cakes and what have you. We never needed to say anything unless it was needed to be said. Like a target being picked, a part being prioritized, gambits being employed. The rest is just common sense or is easily readable by the behavior of the player/ship.

And that comes with the common sense that comes with competent crewmanship.


As such. I might have a list of 20 something inactive members. But when all is said and done. I know these crew members will keep to the AI's unwritten rule.

When 2 are on a ship. They seldom lose (barring exceptions like trolls and exceptional idiots)

Squidslinger Gilder:
And Cake already went through a rough period. It looked very hairy for a few but Cake has a stronger core. They learned some things, improved, and came out better for it. However, they gotta perpetually be aware of the risks that open communities can get. Just if something does happen, I wouldn't be that worried about them unless there was some major split among their members.

Another factor however, is the fact that the GOIO community is small. It is also more active and personal. Clans converse with each other, clash with each other, and maintain a more public presence than MMOs. This has a lot to do with the forums here. The activity level is higher because everything runs through them. People have gotten used to that. MMOs portray themselves as a social gaming experience when in fact once players join guilds, they are more prone to only hanging with guildies rather than the public players. There is no need for forums or talking with other guilds as the guild generally handles all of that themselves through their own site/etc. GOIO sees some of this, but overall it isn't as bad.

All of that can fuel implosions even more since MMO players always have a concept of "the grass is always greener," with other guilds in the back of their minds. People can be easily coaxed and poached from guilds. Then you have the guild hoppers who jump from guild to guild for whatever reason. Much of the time to steal items or loot.

For how social the games are, MMO players are some of the most selfish groups in gaming. I've ran Raiding guilds or been on major raid teams. When you hit endgame in MMOs there is either raids or PVP. People like to fantasize about social aspects and becoming friends with people all over the world, but that only holds up for so long. This is why RP servers are better if you want to find friendlier, less selfish, players. They tend to not be completely focused on endgame or PVP. Their desire to play is not dependent on what is offered by the game company or by how maxed out they can make their toons.

I currently run a semi hardcore Ops guild on an RP server. The skill level of the players is sometimes lower than PVE servers, but problem players are fewer. The only major split we had was about 2 years ago...started by a group of hardcore Ops players in the community. I merged them in a year or two prior when their guild disbanded. We had ran with many of them and we had liked them. Then when their guild collapsed, we kindly took them in. Bout a year later, their leader took a bunch and up and left. I knew the guy, I even had made him a Co-GM. Just suddenly I'm out of town and the post is made, he took his little core group, then coaxed a bunch of others with him. Didn't even have the nerve to say it himself, made one of his buddies do it for him.

I would have let him go if he had came to me. In fact I made him a deal back when he merged his people in. If they ever wanted to leave and restart their guild, we'd give them our blessing and even do whatever we could to help them get back on their feet. So yeah, he royally stabbed us in the back. I lost a lot of people I considered "friends." Even the people he coaxed to go with him weren't happy. they didn't think it was right. But he lied to them, told them stories. It was the same crap I had seen over a dozen times in WoW/etc over the years. Same story too. All of them ended the same way. In fact, that was my parting message to them. "Within 6 months, maybe a year, you guys will collapse."

Then about 2 months later (think it was about a month before people got angry), it happened. Later on I found out why. He showed his true colors. Told all of them that they were scum and unworthy of being on the core Ops team. Then he took those guys and switched servers. Left the ones who were tricked behind. He even cleaned out of guild bank of one of his allies and left their guild creditless before leaving. The ones left behind then formed a guild of their own up and actually have become quite good.

See with GOIO and all the clans having to interact with each other on here, there is a clear picture of what everyone offers. The "grass is greener" principle isn't as embedded. That guy that stabbed me in the back, would not have had it so easy convincing people had they not already had a concept of greed in their minds. Thinking they'd be better off under him elsewhere. That they'd progress faster or get more goodies sooner. In GOIO we don't have medals or awards, or items which make our ships hit harder. The difference between top clans and struggling clans is not based on gear or talent. If you can follow commands, work with others, and have a decent net connection, you can be a pro GOIO player.

In fact I rarely see people changing clans in GOIO as I would in MMOs. When they do I don't see the major, screw people over, mentality as I do in MMOs.

Arturo Sanchez:
TL;DR

Guns of Icarus has no economy. Hence back stabbing is highly ineffective and socio-tactically asinine, as it serves no purpose. While mmos and various pay to win or even games with natural player progression that differentiates levels right down to a gameplay level... does favour selfish behaviour as it emphasizes the individual and not the team.

But then again Rydrs. The famous chieve whoring clan, many would want to join then if them as the achievements grinding they did was a major part of lvling up in-game at some point. With their numbers and this collective attitude... If I werent leader of AI I would probably be a rydr.

When it comes down to it, people want to join the clan of winners. Unless yu're in these friendship clans that noobies make that very quickly disband after losing enough morale with loss after loss.

funny how close friends really just how "close" they really are as they demonstrate an obvious lack of synergy. and upon realization of that, the clan disbands and the players within mostly quit.

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