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Another gunner fix proposal - multi-tiered approach needed.

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obliviondoll:

--- Quote from: Sprayer on December 02, 2014, 01:50:25 am ---Two individuals who couldn't be more different from eachother in their views and thought processesses read it in the same way and differently than you meant it, believe me, you didn't write it clear enough.
--- End quote ---

My explanation was clear and correct. Two people's failure to understand basic English doesn't negate that. Linguistics is not a democracy. I've gone back over the paragraph in question to make sure, and while there was an omission which could potentially have impacted the clarity of my explanation, I don't believe it should be possible for this to cause a misunderstanding without both a diversion of attention and a lack of basic reading comprehension skills. As such, in spite of two people disagreeing with me, I'm confident that it is, in fact, both of you who are misunderstanding what I wrote, rather than any inaccuracy on my part.

You're welcome to PM me with either an explanation of what you think I said wrong or an apology if you wish. I'm quite careful about my use of English, and consider it an insult to be incorrectly told that I have misused the language. I'd rather not further derail the thread, but I will reply in private and I'm quite happy to dissect my own writing and explain why it makes sense for anyone who is having any trouble with it.


--- Quote ---Well, I do like the timer idea even though I don't think it would change my gunner/gungineer routine. That is, unless that timer is set to "instant" in which case I would switch the ammo right after the reload on some guns. (more like go to normal and back to the ammo I had before to exploit it) This would actually buff gungineers as well since there wouldn't be any misloads anymore when you jump off the gun to whack it with the buffhammer.
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A significant part of the reason for this proposal is to resolve the problem of misloads. And yes, both Gunners and Gungineers would benefit from the change. Gunners moreso, but anyone who mans a gun will see some benefit in terms of this mechanic simplifying their jobs. Even with a timer longer than instant, a 1s or less timer would be a great buff to players who could stay on the gun for that extra second then abandon it without sacrificing the desired ammo selection when they run off to help put out fires, or whatever else the player chooses to do. People whose primary role is to man a gun would benefit the most because they could be more free about when they return to the gun rather than having that very specific tiny window at the end of the reload in which they HAVE to be there to avoid dps and dpc (damage per clip) loss.


--- Quote ---The second poposal would only buff the dpsr (fancy huh? that's how I call dps with reload) but on most if not all guns on which gunners are not viable right now the dpsc (dps per clip duh) or damage per shot (no acronym wtf) matters much more.
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Buffing dpsr (yes, it's a nice term, although I'd be tempted to call it dps/r or dps-r personally) might not be as crucial, but while the damage per clip (more sensible than damage per second per clip) is often more relevant, a noticeable reload buff can make weapons more effective in multi-target situations, as well as benefitting ships with lighter weapons against "hard" targets like Galleons which can soak a lot of damage.

Crafeksterty:
If you cant explain it simply, then you dont understand it yourself.

Gunners reload mechanic is simple, why complicate to fix it? Cus im readin it again and again and i really dont know what you are talking about.
Two seperate timers? The first one you call is reload. what is the other one? Whats its purpose and how does one understand it during gameplay? Is there an icon showing it? Or does one just have to know?

Are you insisting in another reload? Like a one second reload when the gun is allready reloaded with default?


--- Quote ---Let the Gunner* change ammo types ANY TIME DURING THE RELOAD.
--- End quote ---
This allready exists

--- Quote --- Every time a gun is reloaded - EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. Manned or unmanned, manned by someone with the current ammo type or not - the gun should load standard ammo.
--- End quote ---
Then what happened with the ammo switching during reload?!

--- Quote --- When a Gunner selects an ammo type, a timer is begun.
--- End quote ---
What timer. What does it do.

--- Quote --- When the reload OR that timer completes - whichever comes first - the new ammo type is locked in. Abandoning the weapon or switchng to a new ammo type will reset the timer.
--- End quote ---
What is this timer, where does it come in. Are they in at the same time? What?



--- Quote ---With this proposed change, the current routines of players will remain entirely viable. A gunner can leave their gun as it starts reloading, let it reload on standard ammo up to the last 0.1s of the reload time, then suddenly throw Lochnagar or Burst Ammo in at the last second. BUT they can ALSO now lock that ammo type in at the BEGINNING of the reload, and walk off to do something else WITHOUT losing an entire reload plus more for missing their window. Switching ammo type on a loaded gun will reload the gun, much like it already does. Once you've waited out the ammo select timer, you don't have to stay on the gun to make sure it loads. And again, you can do what people already do and use the ammo switch to initiate a reload, leave the gun, then return at the last second to set your chosen ammo type just before the reload completes. You can ALSO switch ammo type, lock that ammo in, then walk away and be free to come back in your own time, knowing the right ammo will be there waiting when you get back.
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Ok, so the ammo is in the gun after being selected during a reload. He can jump out of it and the ammo will still load the selected ammo while he is away.
It wont choose itself the ammo until the player jumps back on, and maybe select another ammo instead of his initial decision which then takes 1 second to switch ammo instead of a full reload. Is that 1 extra second the timer?
So this "timer" is a minor reload that happens only if you change ammo when you jump back into the gun? Am i getting it right?

Sprayer:

--- Quote from: obliviondoll on December 03, 2014, 07:56:16 am ---[...]
but while the damage per clip (more sensible than damage per second per clip) is often more relevant
[...]

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It's actually damage per second in a single clip so yes it is damage per second per clip. In competetive matches it's often considered a failure to not oneclip enemy armor with a single gatling clip. This is dependant on the damage output over time as well as the damage per clip.

Also I think I will just follow your example and continue derailing the thread without the use of pms. The ability to express ones own thoughts in a way that others can easily understand it using language is a skill associated with any language. As you have seen, I was able to express your suggestion in an easier way than you did, therefore there were and are simpler ways. Failure to use them is in the one who does the statement.

Caprontos:
For reloading guns it should just be.. Player gets on gun - selects ammo type.. and regardless if the player leaves the gun or not the gun will load that ammo type... If a player who doesn't have that ammo is on the gun when the clip ends, it will revert back to default ammo. No need for extra timers or any of that nonsense.

This would remove the issues with trying to time repairs, using multiple guns, etc while still getting the benefit of ammo. Basically just makes reloading more user-friendly.

This was actually a thing at one time for a few weeks awhile ago (like a year probably).. Only differences was if AI or another player who didn't have the ammo the gun was loading, got on the gun.. The gun reverted to normal while it was reloading - which was annoying in the case of AI. So my only change is to make it not care about AI being on the gun (pretend they have every ammo type).. In the case of players that's just a communication thing and is fine if it reverts.... So it's possible they just chose to return to how it is now.. Why they opted for the less user friendly option- I don't know exactly..


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My opinion on the buff hammer is to just make it not buff damage of guns, and instead make the buff an anti-snip buff(be that, an hp buff or a new buff that mitigates some % of the damage). Let ammo increase damage - let engineer tools repair/protect the ship.

Kestril:

--- Quote from: Caprontos on December 03, 2014, 07:02:47 pm ---
--
My opinion on the buff hammer is to just make it not buff damage of guns, and instead make the buff an anti-snip buff(be that, an hp buff or a new buff that mitigates some % of the damage). Let ammo increase damage - let engineer tools repair/protect the ship.

--- End quote ---

That's the best gunner fix idea I've heard ever.

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