No Novice Gunners.

[Richard LeMoon]

Hundreds of novice gunners (cause gunnin is COOL!) are mucking up the matchmaking. No one wants a novice gunner. I don't think a lot of them even understand that engineers can shoot as well. I am sure too many gunners in the queue are slowing down the matchmaking process as well. Solution for several problems at once:

Don't let people with less than 20 matches choose gunner.

[sparklerfish]

I doubt this would ever be implemented, but I like the idea.  I've had novice crews tell me we shouldn't start because my 3-engineer build didn't have a gunner...

Is the default class you start as gunner?  Maybe that's also subtly influencing people?  If it is, it should default to engineer.  Also, I haven't done the tutorials in a long time, but if the engineering tutorial doesn't include some shooting, or mention ammo types, it probably should.  I can't even count the times I've told an engineer to change their ammo type and they respond by switching to gunner.

[Hoja Lateralus]

It's just sad how hillarious it is. It's like:
Hahahahahaha.... no :<

I dig the idea of engineer being the starting class though. On the other hand it's significantly harder to be a decent engineer than a decent gunner.

[DJ Logicalia]

I don't really feel that's fair. It's not the class, it's the person. Every class is confusing, hell, most new players thing pilot class is stupid and pointless. And speaking of pilot, I would much rather have a novice gunner than a novice pilot. Sure, new players can't utilize ammo types correctly, but I'm sure you didn't straight off either. I know I didn't. That being said, I did start off as an engi and I believe that taught me way more than I would have learned as a gunner or a pilot, but blocking gunner (and might as well throw pilot in there to. Same reasons and all) isn't fair to new players who want to learn a class.

[Schwalbe]

Hey guys, i have even better idea.

Ban anyone with less than 20 matches completed from choosing pilot or gunner or engineer.

You can guys thank me later for my genius invention.

[ShadedExalt]

Hey guys, i have even better idea.

Ban anyone with less than 20 matches completed from choosing pilot or gunner or engineer.

You can guys thank me later for my genius invention.

20 games of spectation with commentary on what the crew did right and wrong, and how the cap'n screwed up.

[HamsterIV]

Is the default class you start as gunner? 

Yes, when a new player logs in their starting class is gunner. When I asked Muse why they did this they said gunner is the easiest class to learn. To a degree it is. If I have one brand new player I stick them as a gunner on an easy gun like a gat.

I do not agree with this approach since tricks newbies in to the least versatile class first. If this game is bought as a 4 pack amongst friends and they all play their first match on the same ship together as default class (gunner), they will have an absolutely rotten experience. Four gunners makes a much less viable ship than 4 engineers.

[Trystan Hart]

Is the default class you start as gunner? 

If I have one brand new player I stick them as a gunner on an easy gun like a gat.

I always put them as an engineer on a simple gun like a gat. It's tedious having to explain 5 times a session that gunner is only useful if you need more than 1 ammo type, but I'd rather they get used to the idea that engineer is more useful than gunner 95% of the time.

[Richard LeMoon]

Gunner is not easier to learn or teach. You have to explain three different ammos, ranges, lead, order of firing, timing, gun maintenance, emergency repairs, spots, AND they have to talk because gunner/pilot feedback is important.

Engineers? "If it is red, hit it with a spanner. If it is not, hit it with a mallet. Use a gun when I tell you. Use your special ammo when they are close/far."

And I will agree on no novice pilots as well outside of custom matches.

[Chmielewski]

I think that novice engineer or pilot is worse.
(But any novice is good when you can cooperate with them.)

[Schwalbe]

Hey guys, i have even better idea.

Ban anyone with less than 20 matches completed from choosing pilot or gunner or engineer.

You can guys thank me later for my genius invention.

20 games of spectation with commentary on what the crew did right and wrong, and how the cap'n screwed up.

...can't you guys recognize SARCASM...?

[Hoja Lateralus]

@up

Ban everyone with less than 100 matches played
Natural selection bitch

[Nidh]

Hey guys, i have even better idea.

Ban anyone with less than 20 matches completed from choosing pilot or gunner or engineer.

You can guys thank me later for my genius invention.

20 games of spectation with commentary on what the crew did right and wrong, and how the cap'n screwed up.

...can't you guys recognize SARCASM...?

Pretty sure Shaded was being sarcastic

[RearAdmiralZill]

Is "novice gunner" the new slang for "new player X" ?

Fun is relative. Just because you aren't having any doesn't mean every player in the game isn't.

This would also create really weird situations where if your crew is all under lvl 20, you can only get engineers. I'm sure some members of the community would be delighted, while I would have to explain to them that if they could be gunners, maybe that gun they hate so much because they can only use one ammo wouldn't be so bad.

[Hillerton [PC]]

I'm afraid I have to agree with everyone who is saying that this is a terrible idea, while a low level unskilled gunner can force a crew to use simpler tactics or even mess with the ships ability to work I much much rather have a bad low level gunner than a bad engineer. After all with a bad gunner you can pluck them on a flamer and tell them to stay there and if they do not handle that it is not the class that is the issue.

However mostly I'm against this as 20 matches is not enough for someone playing engineer to become a good gunner and this would make no difference other than confusing new players as to why one class is locked. So basically what we would do is the same thing novicegames did when they first came out, push the level of the bad players a bit higher making it harder to tell who is good and who have no idea of how to play their class.

Instead I would suggest that the pilot adapt the ship to the crew, use simple weapons like carronade, gattling, flamer for low level gunners, explain to them what ammo to use and why they are using it. If it turns out they are responsive and you think they can handle it you can try harder guns with them.

sorry for the rant
//Hillerton

PS what could be good is if the gunners standard loadout didn't come with a spanner as this confuses ppl