Hiding levels

[Imagine]

No, but as we heard, a big problem with matchmaking right now is people who get put in a lobby and leave right away.

As I, and Muse, has stated, this was done solely to disassociate levels from MMR.

I can understand why it was done. That not the issue here. But what is the larger issue...players jumping out of lobby to find a better suited lobby to their skill level or players leaving the game completely because they continuously get stomped because the match making system does not work as intended? I would think that losing players or players finding the game unfair and not fun would be the much larger issue here.

The issue is that jumping out of a lobby hurts the matchmaking system itself (I don't know the specifics behind this, but it's what Keyvias and Bubbles I believe have stated).

The point is that a side with lvl, say, 20s, can easily beat a side of 30s, but if someone comes in and sees the disparity in numbers pertaining to levels that have no actual bearing on skill and leaves because of it, it's actively hurting Matchmaking system.

Look there are a lot of fights to pick with Matchmaking; this is not one of them. This is such a non issue that having 3 pages of posts about it baffles me.

[KitKatKitty]

The point is that a side with lvl, say, 20s, can easily beat a side of 30s, but if someone comes in and sees the disparity in numbers pertaining to levels that have no actual bearing on skill and leaves because of it, it's actively hurting Matchmaking system.

Look there are a lot of fights to pick with Matchmaking; this is not one of them. This is such a non issue that having 3 pages of posts about it baffles me.

This isn't about match making, it's about hiding levels. I agree that the 20's can beat the 30's such as 30's can beat 40's. My stance has been to give back our levels, so they aren't hiding so that when there are lobbies full of 1-10's and 40+ players, those players can try to balance.  These are https://gunsoficarus.com/community/forum/index.php/topic,5019.0.html the type of matches in which IF we saw the levels before hand we could try to balance the lobby. (Once again this is about being able to view levels, not fixing match making)

[Imagine]

The point is that a side with lvl, say, 20s, can easily beat a side of 30s, but if someone comes in and sees the disparity in numbers pertaining to levels that have no actual bearing on skill and leaves because of it, it's actively hurting Matchmaking system.

Look there are a lot of fights to pick with Matchmaking; this is not one of them. This is such a non issue that having 3 pages of posts about it baffles me.

This isn't about match making, it's about hiding levels. I agree that the 20's can beat the 30's such as 30's can beat 40's. My stance has been to give back our levels, so they aren't hiding so that when there are lobbies full of 1-10's and 40+ players, those players can try to balance.  These are https://gunsoficarus.com/community/forum/index.php/topic,5019.0.html the type of matches in which IF we saw the levels before hand we could try to balance the lobby. (Once again this is about being able to view levels, not fixing match making)

But there's no attempt at player balance. People just leave.

I don't see any particular benefit in displaying levels in matches, all it does is spread misinformation.

[KitKatKitty]

I see that it is more likely for low levels to leave, high levels to try to balance. And like I stated before I much rather any level player leaving (yes, i know this screws with match making, but everyone already knows match making needs work hence Muse's next hotfix but this isn't about that) when they see a lobby isn't going to work out for their skill set instead of losing new players because they find the game frustrating and unfair because it is a pub stomp. It is much more fun for players to play with and against similar levels then a 5-0 game. I thought the new leveling system was all about ranking a player on experience in the game and not achievements so if that is true showing levels should show experience which I have found to be true.

[Imagine]

Well yeah but game experience is not the same thing as your Matchmaking ranking. There's certainly going to be some correlation, but you want to make sure that the perception isn't that balance is done through game levels.

[SaintR.L.]

I really wonder why they would carry over levels from achievements to the current level system. With how you gain levels now you could use that as a more accurate level system but by carrying over the old level you get some inaccurate representation.

[zlater75@hotmail.com]

For some reason this Matrix scene came to mind after reading this..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWaxF8jlnm0

I think, quoting previous posters key words, "how you gain levels" is the actual issue here. Maybe even solution. As long as farming is possible the levels and achievements really just say, in the end, "i used x amount of time to gain this". But.. you have to get halfway to realise that. Many other games use levels in a very different way. Some don't have numbers at all and (OMG) there are even games that lack levels all together, even achievements, and can still be very enjoyable.

Firstly, i didn't vote because the option to completely remove the levels all together isn't there. Why does the game need them? There could be just an indicator of how long you've played or nothing at all. Personally, i wouldn't mind. Hardest thing is to find something that won't get exploited or turned into something about matchmaking or a dogfight of opinions with half truths. Keep a game alive, clean and fair is much more important than whining about levels imho.

Secondly, using levels as an excuse for new players leaving the lobby/match/game and vets switching to another is a poor excuse. There's much more to this game than levels. Hidden levels hasn't really made any significant difference either. Nothing really noticable. Still see players leave, switch lobby, ragequit.. just like before with levels 1-15, too, in the pre-matchmaking, "old" level world. The reasons? No lobbytimer, maybe? Meaning they won't have time to get a decent loadout. Poor shipbuild. No patience. Moodswing. Offensive voicechat. Unresponsive crew. Trolls. Stacks. Stomps.

I don't know why Muse wanted levels in this game when they were made. I haven't played that long. Maybe it was primarily for fun and an indicator/reward for the player? It doesn't feel like that at all anymore. Instead it feels like a burden or just a number.
I would feel better if Novices had a fair chance, instead of getting killed by a harsh lobby, to have a fair amount of time to practise, learn and enjoy the game more. That IS one of the reasons it was put there, though not really helpful. Something else has to be done to achieve a balance and more stable gaming experience and the devs (last fireside) are working on it. Hidden levels or not, doesn't really matter at all for the game itself. It's cosmetic at most.

[KitKatKitty]

Well yeah but game experience is not the same thing as your Matchmaking ranking. There's certainly going to be some correlation, but you want to make sure that the perception isn't that balance is done through game levels.

I agree Imagine. The match making ranking should/is something completely different, I believe it's based on MMR. I'm not advocating for match making to be based on our levels either. But at this point in time since levels show experience and match making is flawed it is the best way to try to help create fair play all around after being placed in an unbalanced match. I love my levels, I worked hard for them BUT what I love more is this game and the future of this game. So if players leaving lobby or balancing their own match based on the level system will help keep more of the new players from the sale, then so be it, until they can hotfix the match making system.

Firstly, i didn't vote because the option to completely remove the levels all together isn't there. Why does the game need them? There could be just an indicator of how long you've played or nothing at all. Personally, i wouldn't mind. Hardest thing is to find something that won't get exploited or turned into something about matchmaking or a dogfight of opinions with half truths. Keep a game alive, clean and fair is much more important than whining about levels imho.

Secondly, using levels as an excuse for new players leaving the lobby/match/game and vets switching to another is a poor excuse. There's much more to this game than levels. Hidden levels hasn't really made any significant difference either. Nothing really noticable. Still see players leave, switch lobby, ragequit.. just like before with levels 1-15, too, in the pre-matchmaking, "old" level world. The reasons? No lobbytimer, maybe? Meaning they won't have time to get a decent loadout. Poor shipbuild. No patience. Moodswing. Offensive voicechat. Unresponsive crew. Trolls. Stacks. Stomps.

I don't know why Muse wanted levels in this game when they were made. I haven't played that long. Maybe it was primarily for fun and an indicator/reward for the player? It doesn't feel like that at all anymore. Instead it feels like a burden or just a number.
I would feel better if Novices had a fair chance, instead of getting killed by a harsh lobby, to have a fair amount of time to practise, learn and enjoy the game more. That IS one of the reasons it was put there, though not really helpful. Something else has to be done to achieve a balance and more stable gaming experience and the devs (last fireside) are working on it. Hidden levels or not, doesn't really matter at all for the game itself. It's cosmetic at most.

I would be just fine with have rank with titles and not numbers instead. And you are very correct geno, there are many more reasons players leave besides just seeing other players levels.