Off-Topic > The Lounge
Issue with games on holidays
ATeddyBear:
--- Quote from: Helmic on March 30, 2013, 05:54:22 pm ---
--- Quote from: Squash on March 30, 2013, 05:24:13 pm ---I didn't start this.
--- End quote ---
Yeah, it'd be better to just copy over the whole thing, it's not like the discussion was culled from a big thread. It'd be nice to have some context for those just tuning in.
--- End quote ---
I can't splice out first posts, but I updated the first post in this thread with the context
Linen:
--- Quote from: Phoebe on March 30, 2013, 06:02:08 am ---There seems to be quite a gap in expectations and how people value and interpet The Cogs event;- can we please continue identifying it as a community event and not a professionals league please?
--- End quote ---
I seem to remember reading somewhere that Cogs is meant to be referred to as a weekly scrimmage rather than a professional league.
It's just a game. If you have to sub less skilled players and drop a spot it's not the end of the world. Hell even if your booted for a no show it's even possible to return the very next week depending on how many new challengers there are.
Remember it's only early days for Cogs. If the organisers realize that certain dates are drawing substandard numbers of spectators and competitors I'm sure they'll take that into account.
Inversely some of these dates (for example holidays) might be perfect for other people to get in on the fun without work or school looming.
Just thought I'd pop in some of my points that got left in the last thread.
Papa Paradox:
--- Quote from: Linen Murakami on March 30, 2013, 09:25:55 pm ---Inversely some of these dates (for example holidays) might be perfect for other people to get in on the fun without work or school looming.
--- End quote ---
That's a great point, some people find it more convenient to have it on holidays, because of the amount of free time associated with it. It really comes down to how an individual prioritizes, which is hard to plan for, and we don't want to forsake the dedicated by making them wait a week in limbo. I know it's not the end of the world, but a lot of people invest a lot of time at being the best. Ducks, Gents, Merry Northern Storm, ect who do take it very competitively shouldn't have to wait on people who play a lot more casually. I love how this got a lot more civilized <3.
PS: Ergo means therefore, so that was the proper use.
RearAdmiralZill:
As much as I dont want to touch this with a 10 foot poll, I feel Papa needs some help.
First of all:
--- Quote ---Not everyone in the cogs sees it as "Competitive Play" and not everyone should either. It's a community event;- it's fun and as Squash pointed out it's fundamentally a spectator experience. Most of all it should remain a democracy where - if planned on easter - people should be fine in stating a dissapointment that it's scheduled on easter weekend and we should be able to have some form of civil debate to see what we can do about it.
--- End quote ---
The scheduled Training Day is a community event. Like it or not, Cogs is the Official medium for "Competitive Play." It takes a level of organization to get a team in, and if you want to stay in, that organization has to stick around. Enter groups and clans. We manage to keep the organization.
Swallow also dictated early on that this was not a democratic affair. Now that being said, an outcry of the entire community and teams involved would surely lead to a change im sure.
But its not. Only MasX stated it would be hard. They still played, and won. If any of our teams couldnt field 2 full boats, we would have to bow out and take a loss. We know whats going to happen. The Cogs does not bar you from reentering. Hell, Id be willing to bet that if there was a majority of teams saying, hey, we cant make it due to *Insert holiday here*, a rematch or postponement of the Cogs could happen. As you said, its a spectator event. No one wants to watch two teams with half ai. If we did that then you might as well stream normal matches.
But dont come pounding your fists in a forum thread about the Cogs not caring about holidays you want off on. This is a video game. We know the challenges of fielding teams on saturdays that happen to fall on a holiday we enjoy. This is why we all have alternates. If you enter the Cogs with no alternates, thats a huge risk you take. Life happens.
So to finish, we still ran the Cog matches today just fine. Crows were undermanned if im not mistaken, so while Easter may of required a few alternates, it didnt need a weekend off. We all live and die by the same rules of the Cogs. Unless a vast majority of community complains, and a vast majority of teams simply cannot be there (thus ruining the chances of good streaming and competition), then I see no reason to get angry about it and field what i can.
Helmic:
It's not an issue of a majority, it's an issue of who's participating. While it's great they still won, it's still something that could have been avoided had they spoke up earlier. Yes, some holidays are going to make it easier to participate for some people, but "easier to participate" for people who can already participate is pretty meaningless. It's a Saturday, the time was chosen because it's when most people are going to have the free time to get on, holiday or not. Thanksgiving, Christmas, Easter, those are holidays where you can reasonably expect a number of people to not be present; skipping a week isn't going to mean death for the Cogs, it means that it's going to be a reasonably fair fight. Not everyone who wants to participate is going to have as many people to draw quality substitutes from. While it's just reality that they're going to have to deal with their own things that pop up it's pretty unreasonable to just write off holidays as poor planning on their part when it could so easily be fixed with a little planning from the organizers.
It's pretty simple: a couple weeks ahead, mention that so and so would like an off week for finals or Easter or Christmas or whatever. Two or three weeks are skipped out of the 52 we have each year, no one feels like they lost their spot because they're from X country or practice X religion. If you're being facetious about it, your request is denied.
There's seriously no need for this "live or die" attitude, there's really no great reason we can't skip a week every once in a while to better fit common schedules. This is a weekly thing, a break once in a while is a good thing.
--- Quote from: Linen Murakami on March 30, 2013, 09:25:55 pm ---It's just a game. If you have to sub less skilled players and drop a spot it's not the end of the world. Hell even if your booted for a no show it's even possible to return the very next week depending on how many new challengers there are.
--- End quote ---
If rankings are supposed to be treated like they're not worth holding onto, there's no meaning to the Cogs. The whole reason we're having this discussion is because people care enough about the Cogs to want to keep their rankings but not enough to blow off something like a major holiday, nor should they be expected to when it's pretty easy to schedule around stuff that. Moving the match to the day before or after is not going to inconvenience someone like having most of your team gone.
--- Quote from: Papa Paradox on March 30, 2013, 10:06:04 pm ---PS: Ergo means therefore, so that was the proper use.
--- End quote ---
I think I phrased that wrong. It's a logical fallacy as I didn't make the claim, nor would making the claim "invalidate myself." The whole little quoted bit was pretty nonsensical.
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