What's wrong with heavy guns?

[Hoja Lateralus]

Last time I saw that galleon is one of the least picked ships on the last Hephaestus Challenge and I started to wonder what is wrong with galleon that people tend not to take it - and I started thinking that maybe heavy guns are somehow underpowered? I'd always imagined that heavy gun is at least as powerful as two small guns - but mostly isn't. Firstly - there's much more possibilities in light guns because...there are more light guns (duuh). Then - it's really hard to kill something using one heavy gun (say, goldfish), harder than with good combo of two light guns (pyramidion, junker, squid). I'm curious what do you guys think....

[SirNotlag]

I don't think they are underpowered I just wish there was more variety to them.

[Lydia Litvyak]

Yeah, galleons are traditionally considered to be underpowered, and they're sort of tricky to fly. I think there are a couple of teams that have been using them pretty effectively lately, though

[Squidslinger Gilder]

Because Muse keeps adding arming timers and nerfing heavy guns. Along with that and their inability to move well, just makes pilots shy away.

If a ship is going to be slow, then the guns need to offset that. It is taking a huge risk with lack of mobility and as such, needs a counter with being a ship you avoid at all cost because broadsides hurt. Old GOIO, this was how it was. Pilots learned fast to avoid their gun arcs and flew more evasive because one shot landing could often times ruin your day. Then people freaked out about 2hr artillery battles and next we had range cuts, velocity cuts, arming timers, power nerfs...list goes on.

When heavy guns were at their prime, there was nothing more satisfying than cramming a goldfish up someone's tailpipe and unloading both HF barrels. Ahh...good times.

Course if those get patched back, then Muse also has to patch the light ships back to being a bit more mobile to counter. So they've kinda dug themselves in a hole and Muse has already stated recently that they are happy with how the game is balanced right now. If you don't like it, let them know like I do. If they want to keep it as is, then fine, it is their game. But we need a hardcore mode or something which brings the power and speed back so people have an option. Course there are those that are afraid of that. Not that it wouldn't be a success but because it would. Afraid too many players will migrate to that and not play the original. But for that matter, if that is the case then it would be a clear sign where the design flaws are in GOIO.

[Replaceable]

Big Guns are big.

Easy to hit.

[RearAdmiralZill]

Well which one is it, what's wrong with a galleon, or whats wrong with heavy guns?

Galleon needs a decent ally. That right there makes it risky in itself for pub games. Big blind spots, and a reliance on good shots. Mistakes add up quick on a galleon.

Heavy guns are big, and relatively weak in terms of health, yet take long enough to rebuild that they start becoming not worth it when you have so many. One to focus on isnt as bad. 4? Yea. Light guns just out-do them, if you have two going. The sheer amount of options now for light vs heavy isnt healthy. I was hoping for a new heavy gun before the hades.

Id never agree with Gilder to put it back to the way it was before arming times, but thats just the state of things. It can be done, but it takes more effort, and the counters are many.

[DMaximus]

I think the rise of the lumberfish is pretty indicative of the issue with heavy guns. On a Goldfish, there's usually a spare engy to help with the rebuild and you're maneuverable enough to be able to get out of the line of fire or backpedal constantly if need be. On a Galleon, it's almost impossible to keep your guns up if you face any kind of disabling power and the rebuild is so long your enemy is on top of you by the time you get them back up. I think just lowering rebuild time a little on heavy guns would help a lot.

[HamsterIV]

I don't participate in tournament play so I can't really speak for that aspect of the game. I prefer to take light guns over medium guns because they are more forgiving of novice users. They usually have more shots per minute, so are more forgiving, of the occasional miss. They are also less reliant on multiple types of specialty ammo.

I suspect at higher levels of play medium weapons are easier to counter because they are easier to disable or out fly. Tournament play seems to be pretty conservative (excluding those maniacs in Cake). I expect people are shying away from high risk reward strategies that involve heavy weapons because they don't want to be eliminated from the tourney.

[Alistair MacBain]

The current meta is defined by movement. You rarely see teams camp on one or two spots. Reactions and movements are a key part of the game.
So most teams tend to bring maneuverable ships. A slow galleon with sideguns isnt good at that kind of play.
A mobile goldy can do that much better.

[Dutch Vanya]

Am i the only one who noticed the rydr's winning the recent sunday community skirmishes with two galleons? Kind of goes against the last few posts.

[RearAdmiralZill]

I didn't watch those matches, but two galleon's are.....quite easy to counter. By all means, bring them. I know ill have fun.

[Dutch Vanya]

I didn't watch those matches, but two galleon's are.....quite easy to counter. By all means, bring them. I know ill have fun.

Why aren't you joining and beating them then? If it's so easy?

[Imagine]

I didn't watch those matches, but two galleon's are.....quite easy to counter. By all means, bring them. I know ill have fun.

Why aren't you joining and beating them then? If it's so easy?

It's MM hibernation season.

[Dutch Vanya]

I didn't watch those matches, but two galleon's are.....quite easy to counter. By all means, bring them. I know ill have fun.

Why aren't you joining and beating them then? If it's so easy?

It's MM hibernation season.

I just want to see him do it, since he is so confident about it, and no other team has been successful.

[RearAdmiralZill]

I never said it was easy to kill them personally. Just easy to counter two galleons.

This isn't a contest. Its a thread on either heavy guns or galleons being weaker plays than, say, stuff with an abundance of light guns, and why.