Info > Feedback and Suggestions
The damage system is flawed. Suggesting overhaul.
Squidslinger Gilder:
--- Quote from: HamsterIV on September 24, 2014, 04:58:12 pm ---My "DPS squid" setup uses gat front banshee side. I can't use the morter because the arc is not wide enough to overlap the gat. I can't use the artemis because is turn rate is too slow. I can't use the light flack or Hades due to arming time. No other weapon does enough consistent explosive dammage to work as a side mounted finisher on a squid. The current balance allows for a lot of niche rolls. I like it that way.
--- End quote ---
Use kerosene to get mort in range. Its still problematic but the only solution. Bout the only thing it can do to put the mort in play. I shoulda taken Muse up on that "turn the side mount more forward," idea. Muse has been so arming timer crazy that I just hoped they'd see more light with the LF. Oh well. If it eventually leads to them finally overhauling a few ships that have been broken for a long time, I'm suddenly all for arming timers.
Ultimately this thread comes down to one simple aspect...noobs not reading tooltips. The game does not need to be changed or turned on it's head just because some people don't want to take the time to click a single button and see...oh this gun does piercing or this does explosive. If you can't be bothered to click a button, then why should Muse be forced to spend hours tweaking and tuning the game?
Van-Tuz:
It appears to me that people are capable of reading only first and last posts in the thread.
Here's a recap for your small cache size:
1) I've misunderstood the problem initially.
2) After some more analysis i've dropped my "damage normalising" idea.
3) I've proposed another system that is supposed to make explosive weapons more valuable, add more depth by requiring different approach for different ships and prevent instant Hflak deaths (which are not as fun for both sides as prolonged fight)
Refer to this and this posts please.
And for brass' and steam's sake: do not post anything else about how valuable Banshee is.
===================================
--- Quote from: Gilder Unfettered on September 26, 2014, 03:12:42 am ---Ultimately this thread comes down to one simple aspect...noobs not reading tooltips.
--- End quote ---
Show me the screenshot with a tooltip that says "you would do more damage to armor by sneezing on it than with this gun" or "we have designed our guns in this way that if you equip 2 of these your ship will be useless piece of flying junk. Ha-ha"
The real point is: to find out that explosive guns are completely useless against armor you're supposed to dig out additional manuals. All weapon tooltips are just saying that "these guns deal explosive damage". Not a word that heavy flak shells will bounce off the armor like a pea off the wall. If newcomers are misinformed then it's the designers' problem not newcomers'.
And just changing tooltips won't fix other system's flaws.
Wundsalz:
Your ideas are not going to happen because the goals of the system change you suggest contradict the design goals of GoIOs gameplay. Several posters have pointed out some KO-criteria in this thread already.
Let me re-elaborate them to take some heat off your small processing unit:
--- Quote ---1.Explosive weapons would be always valuable.
--- End quote ---
That's not desirable. All guns are designed in a way that they are more or less specialized at certain tasks. This ensures that the rich gun-diversity GoIO has got to offer is used. Having the influence of damage types leveled so all guns can execute every task would make the gameplay rather dull.
--- Quote ---2.Different armor thickness would require different approach to every ship.
--- End quote ---
With the current system a ships armor already influences how you want to approach it. E.g. in case you face a spire and a junker and you can pick your target, you'll probably want to focus down the spire first as it has got a rather flimsy armor compared to the junker. Armor also influences the players behavior on a more tactical level. If you face a pyramidion with a greased gat-mortar setup, it's usually most efficient to hold the mortar fire until your opponents armor is about to break. Once the gatling gun striped the hull it can usually be reloaded right away to be ready again once the hull is up. However if you face a squid another shooting behavior is more efficient due to the quick hull repairs. The Mortar can start shooting about 2-seconds after the gatling starts firing. On hull breaks the gatling can stop shooting for 1-2 seconds without a reloading to maximize the number of hull strips with a single clip while the mortar can shoot continuously to ensure shots hit while the armor is down. I hope these examples illustrate how significant the influence of the (ship specific) armor already is. The entire gameplay revolves around getting rid of the enemies armor and capitalizing on the strips when they happen.
Regarding the statement itself: I do not see how your suggestion could help to diversify gameplay based on the ships armor value.
--- Quote ---3.Double mortar configs would be reasonable."
--- End quote ---
This is one of the setups I don't want to be viable due to the reasons stated in point 1.
--- Quote ---4.Squids won't be invulnerable just by rebuilding armor between shots.
--- End quote ---
Squids are anything but invulnerable with the current system. Regarding your elaboration how focused repairs saved you several times: I could share a few stories where I've single handedly sunk entire fleets flying in a bath tub. However I'd have to admit that my opposition was barely worth its name in those matches. Any half-decent ship can kill a squid - especially if the captain leaves the steering wheel, as movement is the only thing that keeps a squid alive.
Van-Tuz:
My "processing unit" really starts to overheat.
Right after the post where i clearly said that
--- Quote from: Van-Tuz on September 26, 2014, 04:19:21 am ---2) After some more analysis i've dropped my "damage normalising" idea.
--- End quote ---
yet another person brings it up
--- Quote from: Wundsalz on September 26, 2014, 06:56:58 am ---
--- Quote ---1.Explosive weapons would be always valuable.
--- End quote ---
That's not desirable. All guns are designed in a way that they are more or less specialized at certain tasks. This ensures that the rich gun-diversity GoIO has got to offer is used. Having the influence of damage types leveled so all guns can execute every task would make the gameplay rather dull.
--- End quote ---
You're not the one to judge my "processing unit" size. Take care of yours first.
I repeat again: FORGET ABOUT MY EARLY SUGGESTION ABOUT LEVELLING OUT DAMAGE MULTIPLIERS.
Refer to this post to read about the second one.
That makes Wundsalz' argument #3 invalid too because it references the invalid argument #1
--- Quote from: Wundsalz on September 26, 2014, 06:56:58 am ---
--- Quote ---2.Different armor thickness would require different approach to every ship.
--- End quote ---
With the current system a ships armor already influences how you want to approach it. E.g. in case you face a spire and a junker and you can pick your target, you'll probably want to focus down the spire first as it has got a rather flimsy armor compared to the junker.
...
Regarding the statement itself: I do not see how your suggestion could help to diversify gameplay based on the ships armor value.
--- End quote ---
It's the same. First you strip its armor with armor stripper and then you finish it with the finisher. The only difference is how much gatling rounds you're spending. Gatling mortar setup is effective no matter the target. Universal loadouts are deadly boring for me.
With my SECOND suggestion fights against Junker and Squid would require different approach and different loadouts would be effective against them.
Small DR on Sqid's armor but durable hull would make loadouts with more killing power (double mortar) valuable while Junker's more fragile hull would be more resistant to that approach due to high DR on the armor that would make it withstand much more total damage. Unless you have an armor stripper.
Do you have anything else against double mortars except that it breaks your "pattern" and you just don't want it to happen?
Milevan Faent:
If you want people to not keep responding to the first post (the only post 90% of the forum goers will ever read btw), ask a mod to edit it to show the changes going on with the discussion. Otherwise, accept people are going to be stupid or ask for the thread to be locked and restart the discussion with a fresh slate in a new topic.
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