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Junker viability and builds
Mysterious Medic:
What I'm more surprised by is that someone is confused by the concept of a "main engineer" or hull engineer shooting. Basically every ship with high firepower needs a hull engineer shooting. Spire top deck, mobula hull side, and galleon main engineer are all examples of this. If anything, it's a lot harder on those ships, and the engineer is punished more for not being on point. The mobulas hull is so much farther in compared to the 2 steps it takes on a junker. If you think your engineer won't know to stop shooting when taking too much damage then you should simply not take a ship with high firepower. If I have pubs on my ship I basically usually limit myself to goldfish or pyra. I used to have the patience for explaining everything but that was lost long ago. So really, I agree this setup could be bad for novice crew members, but to be honest I really doubt novice crew members would take or know what a "meta junker" is, or they would think it's a junker with two symmetrical gat mortar sides. Judging by this it's pretty fair to say it's usually not the best to compare pubs to doing things at the height of efficiency.
Kain Phalanx:
--- Quote ---IIRC the devs have said its not a gimmick or a mistake but by design.
--- End quote ---
Then it's bad design. It should be fixed to be easier and more apparent.
--- Quote ---What I'm more surprised by is that someone is confused by the concept of a "main engineer" or hull engineer shooting.
--- End quote ---
You're confused if you think I'm confused. I'm arguing that making the main engineer shoot for a trifecta on specifically the junker is prohibitively convoluted for the majority of builds and crews. Your few and limited examples are not very compelling in the idea that hull engineers need to be firing guns often. Your cemented idea that the Junker, a ship with five small guns in three different directions is a high firepower ship instead of a resilient, versatile ship is what I'm contesting. While a trifecta is possible, it is not necessarily optimal in the ship's strategic use, like in the case of the Pyramidion. If you want a small gun trifecta, the Mobula exists for just that.
Kamoba:
But the trifecta is not a good strategy for pyramidions in many cases, against many ships it leaves you open to a ram which will throw your main guns off arc, Junkers are resiliant yes but opening the angle for trifecta means a ram will still leave your main guns in arc only knocking the front gun off arc...
Again it is dependant on the situation but more often than not a pyramidion should concentrate more on front guns and brawling rams or better positioning than worrying about trifecta..
However this is mostly concerning competitive tactics. In pub matches I do agree trifecta with hull engineer on a junker is not a good idea as they will often forget the repairs, but this is a very different situation...
Kain Phalanx:
--- Quote from: Kamoba on January 31, 2015, 10:56:33 am ---But the trifecta is not a good strategy for pyramidions in many cases, against many ships it leaves you open to a ram which will throw your main guns off arc, Junkers are resiliant yes but opening the angle for trifecta means a ram will still leave your main guns in arc only knocking the front gun off arc...
--- End quote ---
With the junker having the best arc coverage in game, usually the most armor in the game, being surprisingly nimble, and having a close, abusable balloon for altitude escapes, it is surely the ship least concerned about being rammed. Furthermore, with this godmode trifecta, I have to wonder why it's getting rammed to begin with.
--- Quote ---However this is mostly concerning competitive tactics. In pub matches I do agree trifecta with hull engineer on a junker is not a good idea as they will often forget the repairs, but this is a very different situation...
--- End quote ---
Right, it's not a good idea. Unless you're using this advanced, specialist strategy with a pre-trained crew, it all falls apart. This means a normal junker should not have someone on the front gun at all times, a gunner should not be bottom deck, and one guy should focus almost completely on repairs.
Kamoba:
When I run Junker in pubs I have a gunner and gungineer, with a main engi, the main engi can shoot the merc on approach to enemies but will.soon find himself out of arc when its time for engagement, pushing him to repairs...
Junker balloon rams are very effective if their pilot is not prepared for it, and can often lead to painful goomba stomps, again situational, a good junker pilot often stays high keeping them safe from such situations (as discussed above.) :)
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