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Heavy duty weaponry
Echoez:
--- Quote from: Dutch Vanya on July 23, 2014, 08:45:31 am ---Shows you've been away. The Lumberfish is all the rage now, i think since muse beat the ducks with it in the haephestus challenge. There are plenty of viable galleon builds and the spire may not be quite up to par for competitive though i believe it is) But in any case it's a force to be reckoned with.
--- End quote ---
I've been here for the Spire changes, it's still a ship that can't hold its own against even a Squid and that makes it incredibly bad in my opinion, "Operation Focus Spire" is still a running joke (and funnily enough still works) since the ship is still horrible at taking any sort of hit and live to tell the tale.
Lumberfish has always been as effective as the gunner on it and that goes for any ship with an LJ, it's still inferior to an LJ/Flak Galleon and suffers from the same weakness to easy disables while not retaining any killing power by itself to effectively kill a ship fast. I've flown it numerous times and I don't see why not even take a Spire instead of it, at least you can fire more guns while still being able to backpedal. Though it could have some uses against slower ships, but I don't see how it will do any better than a Spire considering the enemy gunners can easily disable your gun with an Artemis on both occassions.
I'll take a look at that replay if you can provide it via PM tho as I am interested. Let's keep this on topic though, this is not about currently viable guns on ships, it's about just getting more of them, more shinies is always good.
Dutch Vanya:
--- Quote from: Echoez on July 23, 2014, 09:29:27 am ---
--- Quote from: Dutch Vanya on July 23, 2014, 08:45:31 am ---Shows you've been away. The Lumberfish is all the rage now, i think since muse beat the ducks with it in the haephestus challenge. There are plenty of viable galleon builds and the spire may not be quite up to par for competitive though i believe it is) But in any case it's a force to be reckoned with.
--- End quote ---
I've been here for the Spire changes, it's still a ship that can't hold its own against even a Squid and that makes it incredibly bad in my opinion, "Operation Focus Spire" is still a running joke (and funnily enough still works) since the ship is still horrible at taking any sort of hit and live to tell the tale.
Lumberfish has always been as effective as the gunner on it and that goes for any ship with an LJ, it's still inferior to an LJ/Flak Galleon and suffers from the same weakness to easy disables while not retaining any killing power by itself to effectively kill a ship fast. I've flown it numerous times and I don't see why not even take a Spire instead of it, at least you can fire more guns while still being able to backpedal. Though it could have some uses against slower ships, but I don't see how it will do any better than a Spire considering the enemy gunners can easily disable your gun with an Artemis on both occassions.
I'll take a look at that replay if you can provide it via PM tho as I am interested. Let's keep this on topic though, this is not about currently viable guns on ships, it's about just getting more of them, more shinies is always good.
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None of these statements are definitive. Theory never holds up 100%, but especially in this game. You were doing the same thing in the pyramidion thread. Acting like you know exactly how every single situation in this game plays out.
But aside from that, why can't a spire hold its own against a squid? Especially with the hwacha or hellhound, it is very doable.
pandatopia:
Well, the main weapon types we are missing for heavy weapon types are...
Mid/long range armor melt - frankly no heavy weapon is a good armor melter, though obviously close range carro spam will demolish anything and a full hwacha burst will do heavy armor damage...but they aren't optimized for it. There is no equivalent for hades or gatling.
Flamer type - I would vote against this personally, there doesn't seem to be a point.
Mines - This I would like to see. Giant floating death blocks, or even something so simple as a dual barreled mine launcher that can hold 8-10 mines out in space at one time. Mine galleon go!
Heavy rocket launcher - I mean artemis type gun. However, I think hwacha already covers this pretty well.
Harpoon - I think a heavy harpoon launcher should instantly kill squids.
Extreme long range sniping weapon - heavy mercury. I don't know how this could be balanced however, as the merc already 2 shots some hull armors. Also loch on this would be deadly.
Echoez:
--- Quote from: Dutch Vanya on July 23, 2014, 09:39:35 am ---None of these statements are definitive. Theory never holds up 100%, but especially in this game. You were doing the same thing in the pyramidion thread. Acting like you know exactly how every single situation in this game plays out.
But aside from that, why can't a spire hold it's own against a squid? Especially with the hwacha or hellhound, it is very doable.
--- End quote ---
I never said that, I said "why not", don't put words in my mouth and don't bring other threads into this, I'm always speaking my opinion like everyone does everytime they post something, I thought that was common sense. Which means my opinion is not a solid fact and neither is anyone else's.
Also please tell me what exatly I said doesn't stand true for the most part? The Lumberjack is a gunner's weapon, on a Goldfish, from long range, you can only fire one gun, so you are as effective as your gunner, plain and simple.
In terms of finishing and pure damage, it is inferior to an LJ/Flak Galleon, it's a simple matter of 2 guns versus only one. The Galleon is tankier and can starfe, allowing it to snipe for prolonged times.
The Spire can indeed backpedal like the Goldfish and fire more guns at the target.
The Goldfish's, Spire's AND Galleon's guns are all easily disabled as a sniper, cause in order to fire the LJ, you need to give your gunner a steady ship, or greatly risk messing up their shots.
You're telling me those statements aren't definite, sure, agreed, at least bother to explain why (and if you decided to do so, do it in a PM, not here), since as I said, I've been away for some time, so maybe things have changed? You come off as realy condecending in your comment and I don't realy like it.
As for the Spire not holding up against a Squid, the Squid can easily break your gun arcs cause your ship is so tall, it can stay above and pound your balloon, you can't escape either cause the Spire is too slow for that, one mistake and you are dead.
Now please stop derailing, I stated it before as well, this is a thread about NEW heavy guns and not a discussion about what works or not, I just stated my OPINIONS on the original post, that's all they are and will remain.
Echoez:
--- Quote from: pandatopia on July 23, 2014, 10:03:16 am ---Mid/long range armor melt - frankly no heavy weapon is a good armor melter, though obviously close range carro spam will demolish anything and a full hwacha burst will do heavy armor damage...but they aren't optimized for it. There is no equivalent for hades or gatling.
--- End quote ---
Could be autocannons that shoot projectiles, not hitscan, so it's actually more of a challenge to fire them.
--- Quote from: pandatopia on July 23, 2014, 10:03:16 am ---Flamer type - I would vote against this personally, there doesn't seem to be a point.
--- End quote ---
A gasoline flamer would work like hellfire artillery, would be a nice addition I believe, or it could come in the form of an incindiery grenade launcher?
--- Quote from: pandatopia on July 23, 2014, 10:03:16 am ---Mines - This I would like to see. Giant floating death blocks, or even something so simple as a dual barreled mine launcher that can hold 8-10 mines out in space at one time. Mine galleon go!
--- End quote ---
even bigger mines? :P
--- Quote from: pandatopia on July 23, 2014, 10:03:16 am ---Heavy rocket launcher - I mean artemis type gun. However, I think hwacha already covers this pretty well.
--- End quote ---
I find the Hwacha to be pretty different, since it's a burst type weapon with a massive reload, though I guess more rocket launchers would be reduntant, I'd like to see missiles tho :P
--- Quote from: pandatopia on July 23, 2014, 10:03:16 am ---Extreme long range sniping weapon - heavy mercury. I don't know how this could be balanced however, as the merc already 2 shots some hull armors. Also loch on this would be deadly.
--- End quote ---
Probably OP as you mentioned, also 1 shot magazines with Loch all day. Though I have to admit a giant railgun would be cool.
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