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Design Paradigm, Game balance, and Gunner vs Engineer.
WafflesToo:
I think you pretty well nailed it Crafeksterty.
I can think of two changes that could be made to give Gunners more utility on a ship:
#1) drop / limit the Engineer's ammo slot
#2) when a gun is loaded with an ammo type it should stay loaded with that type until changed by someone else.
Thoughts?
Mattilald Anguisad:
Every class needs to have a choice of ammo type - gunner just needs to have more. - Just add default ammo as a choice. And ONLY if this is done the ammo could stay with the ammo type it had last.
Crafeksterty:
I dont know, when jumping on a thing, you have a default option to not mess up with you.
How the helm has a helm option, and how the guns have a default option.
Making Default an option can be for confusing new players to how the gun actually works.
Default as an option does fix it so that the gunner is more usefull, but thats because you make engineers and pilots less usefull on it.
This is a viable option but not a fun or healthy one.
Doing an overhaul to the ammo type where ammo will be wanted for different situation will force a captain to always get atleast 1 gunner. And people will feel equaly useless/usefull amongst gunners/engineers/pilots.
macmacnick:
Crafek, I use Normal ammo as an ammunition type in of itself, when gunning. This gives me the option of four ammunitions, which is especially useful when using mines, as then I have 4 different ranges.
Lesmok: If an enemy is high above, or out of normal ranges of the mine launcher.
Normal: Self-explanitory.
Incendiary (Heatsink does a similar job): when an enemy is far below, and closer than lesmok.
Lochnagar: Enemy is so damned close you could metaphorically be close enough to touch, or is used as a last-ditch getaway diversion.
This allows the greater variety of mine ranges, albeit with a bit less damage than If you replaced lochnagar with charged.
You handicap practically every mine build if you forgo the normal ammo. Especially engineers who need to mine things.
This can also be seen on a hades. If you bring greased as an engineer, and the enemy is out of range, you cannot use the gun to its full potential that it would be able to if you had normal ammunition alongside the brought ammunition. Don't forgo the normal ammo as a second type, as if we get three gunner tools, then a gunner could bring them and suffer no detrimental effects, but gain no bonuses from the ammo itself, but would be still more able to deal with a situation than an engineer would, as the engineer would have the possibility to only bring one gunner tool, and thus would also not be able to shoot a gun without someone with actual ammo to load it in for them. Therefore, Crafeksterty, your regular ammunition as a selected ammunition type would be incompatible when you add in gunner tools into the equation, thus rendering it impractical.
Crafeksterty:
--- Quote from: macmacnick on May 26, 2014, 03:37:58 am ---Crafek, I use Normal ammo as an ammunition type in of itself, when gunning. This gives me the option of four ammunitions, which is especially useful when using mines, as then I have 4 different ranges.
Lesmok: If an enemy is high above, or out of normal ranges of the mine launcher.
Normal: Self-explanitory.
Incendiary (Heatsink does a similar job): when an enemy is far below, and closer than lesmok.
Lochnagar: Enemy is so damned close you could metaphorically be close enough to touch, or is used as a last-ditch getaway diversion.
This allows the greater variety of mine ranges, albeit with a bit less damage than If you replaced lochnagar with charged.
You handicap practically every mine build if you forgo the normal ammo. Especially engineers who need to mine things.
This can also be seen on a hades. If you bring greased as an engineer, and the enemy is out of range, you cannot use the gun to its full potential that it would be able to if you had normal ammunition alongside the brought ammunition. Don't forgo the normal ammo as a second type, as if we get three gunner tools, then a gunner could bring them and suffer no detrimental effects, but gain no bonuses from the ammo itself, but would be still more able to deal with a situation than an engineer would, as the engineer would have the possibility to only bring one gunner tool, and thus would also not be able to shoot a gun without someone with actual ammo to load it in for them. Therefore, Crafeksterty, your regular ammunition as a selected ammunition type would be incompatible when you add in gunner tools into the equation, thus rendering it impractical.
--- End quote ---
I didnt say anything about forgoing Normal Ammo for the better. Nor did i clearly suggest here that it is the answer.
My suggestion is more torwards having ammo that are different enough for gunners to be wanted.
--- Quote ---Ammo like charged, greased, heatsink, incindiary, burst are way too mundane, in a good or bad way. The only ammo that really kicks things up differently are the heavy clip, Lesmok, Lochnagar.
--- End quote ---
And
--- Quote ---You will want more of THOSE types of ammo. The mundane ammo are close to being default. And that is the issue, how these default like ammunition can be easily used without wanting to switch out. Instead of removing Default ammo, you will want to enhance the use of default because the ammo choice is way too situational. Right now it isnt. Only few hit it spot on.
--- End quote ---
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