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Why the current level system is not good
Velvet:
--- Quote ---If you want an indicator of skills you look at how many matches this person has played, that's as much as you can do in GoIO. Xp would, in one way, just stand as a synonym for the number of matches you have played.
--- End quote ---
no, it would stand as a combined indicator of the number of matches you have played and the number of matches you have won - and thanks to matchmaking, this would be only victories against roughly equally matched opponents.
I seriously can't see how you continue to believe that nobody cares about levels... especially since you're a level 14 pilot - you've clearly gone to significant effort and gone out of your way to farm achievements that have the only effect of increasing your level. Yet you're suggesting that levels are meaningless to people? The fact that the rewards for levelling up are purely aesthetic items and a nontangible increase in self-perceived importance does not mean there is no reward at all or that they don't motivate anyone to do anything. A fact that you, like so many others, stand as living proof of.
I don't understand your purpose in continuing to attack the importance of the levelling system.. this is not a debate on how important it is, it's a discussion of the current problems and whether it should be redesigned to make the game more enjoyable. While it's true that if the levelling system really was irrelevant to many players it wouldn't be such a high priority for Muse to fix it, that A) doesn't change the fact that it should be eventually fixed and B) is a moot point because your assertions are wrong.
SeraphZ:
--- Quote from: Deltajugg on May 17, 2014, 03:44:53 am ---Rebuilding hull armor is one of those things that will happen to you very soon no matter if you agree to it. Forcing a situation like this seems pointless to me. Also, you should always remember that an engineer should have higher priorities with repairs than doing achievements (maybe you don't deserve this level after all if you don't see it :P).
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Certainly - it was an oversimplified example just to show importance of motivation. I'm much lower level than everyone else in this thread but I can see these small issues at my level becoming major later in the game - which is consistent with the response to this thread.
--- Quote from: Velvet on May 18, 2014, 01:21:39 pm ---no, it would stand as a combined indicator of the number of matches you have played and the number of matches you have won - and thanks to matchmaking, this would be only victories against roughly equally matched opponents.
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I completely agree, matches won over matches total is indicator of skill, though volume of XP might be due to just straight persistence. I think this is overall good - to level you either work hard or you work well.
I'm very pleased this topic has taken off and I hope Muse takes some time to consider the subject!
GeoRmr:
--- Quote from: SeraphZ on May 18, 2014, 01:55:32 pm ---
--- Quote from: Deltajugg on May 17, 2014, 03:44:53 am ---Rebuilding hull armor is one of those things that will happen to you very soon no matter if you agree to it. Forcing a situation like this seems pointless to me. Also, you should always remember that an engineer should have higher priorities with repairs than doing achievements (maybe you don't deserve this level after all if you don't see it :P).
--- End quote ---
Certainly - it was an oversimplified example just to show importance of motivation. I'm much lower level than everyone else in this thread but I can see these small issues at my level becoming major later in the game - which is consistent with the response to this thread.
--- Quote from: Velvet on May 18, 2014, 01:21:39 pm ---no, it would stand as a combined indicator of the number of matches you have played and the number of matches you have won - and thanks to matchmaking, this would be only victories against roughly equally matched opponents.
--- End quote ---
I completely agree, matches won over matches total is indicator of skill, though volume of XP might be due to just straight persistence. I think this is overall good - to level you either work hard or you work well.
I'm very pleased this topic has taken off and I hope Muse takes some time to consider the subject!
--- End quote ---
I disagree, currently in this game matches won is no indication of skill, merely an inclination to play with other good players against worse players. This game is far too team-based for win/loss ratio to mean anything.
Velvet:
--- Quote from: GeoRmr on May 18, 2014, 02:09:22 pm ---I disagree, currently in this game matches won is no indication of skill, merely an inclination to play with other good players against worse players. This game is far too team-based for win/loss ratio to mean anything.
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I agree that for an XP system to work it would either have to have a skill rating to limit XP gain in unbalanced matches - or to be introduced in tandem with the already planned matchmaking feature which should largely eliminate the factor of players intentionally organising unbalanced matches.
Dementio:
--- Quote from: Velvet on May 18, 2014, 01:21:39 pm ---no, it would stand as a combined indicator of the number of matches you have played and the number of matches you have won - and thanks to matchmaking, this would be only victories against roughly equally matched opponents.
--- End quote ---
You are suggestion something that has nothing to do with an xp-based level system.
With my argument I had simple logic in mind: The more matches he played, the more experienced he gathered. The more experience he has, the better he is in the game.
It's only an assumption and even some high level players are considered to be bad at everything they do, but it's the best we currently have in this game. Or do you want to be able to see every single stat MUSE database has about this player, similar to your own progess tab?
No matter what kind of indicator this game has, in the end you will have to play with the person in question to know how good/bad said person really is.
Yes, I am a level 14 pilot, you got sharp eyes there, but that shows that I just know how pointless it is to level up. Just think logical, what's waiting for you there, at level 15? A BADGE AND A NICE NUMBER! I honestly don't care about either of those.
If you want to know why I am level 14 read on, if not then skip to second to last paragraph. If you wanna argument against me at why I lvl up, you might wanna take a look.
I did the achievements, because I had the opportunity, time and it sounded fun. Kills ships with flamethrowers? Double flamethrower pyramidion! Kill harpooned ships? Harpoon on the side of the junker! Destroy balloons as a spire? 4 carronades!
Yes there were some not fun achievements (use hydrogen for X seconds, kill X ships at a distance of over 1300m), but from time to time I though "Why not?". What's gonna stop me from going long range, what's gonna stop me from making my engineer hate me because I use this tool too often? Nothing! So why not?
However, most achievements I got at random, Kill X ships, win X matches, capture X points, destroy this ship X times, win X matches against level 7+ with 100% hull armor and some more.
They were not hard, most were not boring, but some gave me more "weird" ideas (double mine junker) or encoureged me to think (what's best for long range? how to use this gun most effiecently and on how many ships can I do it?).
Currently I am stuck at some mobula kills. I will get those in time.
I am a level 14 pilot without actually grinding for it. I don't feel satisfied, proud, sad or anything. I just like playing this game and that leveled me up. An xp-based level system would have done the same, but with less "effort" and "creativity".
I am not trying to argument the current level system's importance, but show you just how unimportant the xp-based level system is in comparision. It wouldn't make anything better and most likely not worse either. The current level system is good and changing it to a basic xp-based one would be, in my opinion, completely stupid and time wasting.
I have a question: How is an xp-based level system better again? It does not show skill since you lvl up even if you lose every match doing nothing at some point in time, that's for sure. And it would be just as rewarding as the current level system. So, how is it better?
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