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Why the current level system is not good
Velvet:
--- Quote from: JaegerDelta on May 17, 2014, 03:28:16 pm ---
--- Quote from: Velvet on May 17, 2014, 02:09:20 pm ---CoD is not by any means the only game to utilise an XP based levelling system. Same way 3D graphics are used in CoD - it doesn't mean 3D graphics should only be used in shallow CoD clones.
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do you have to scare some crows away from your crops? why did you build this straw man?
no where did imply that cod is the only game with an xp based leveling system.
look, whether you agree with the renown approach or not, the fact remains that an xp based system is inappropriate for this game as there is no possibility for progression everything that matters in the game is already available to everyone. you will just have arbitrary numbers increasing until they reset to zero and start increasing again. it will be a measure of playtime more than anything else. If an xp system is inappropriate then you have to use something else or not have a leveling system at all.
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yes, XP would be a measure of playtime and basically have no value except as a bragging right and for aesthetic unlocks. That doesn't matter! What do you think the current system is? A genuine skill indicator? I would much rather that level indicated someone's experience level - often a good rough indicator of their skill - than the number of arbitrary tasks they have completed to increase their level.
Further I really don't feel level matters as a measurement. The important role is as a motivator. People want to level up... it doesn't matter if there is a good reason or they get something tangible for it, they just do. It would be better to utilise that force to motivate people to play the game as a team and co-operate to win than to motivate them to selfishly manipulate the situation to complete this massive list of silly tasks.
--- Quote ---With the achievement system already built into the game and people already investing their time into it, there is no way to get rid of it without pissing people off. its here to stay in skirmish, thats just how it is. i personally dont care about the achievements either, but i dont think its as big of a problem as you guys are presenting it as, i very rarely run into anyone that is not willing to work together in favor of doing their achievement.
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would be trivially easy to convert current achievements, or some other tracked statistic such as number of wins, into XP.
I don't view this as a problem, so much as a missed opportunity. A better level system would encourage new players to play the game in a different way and potentially increase their enjoyment, ultimately making the game more fun for everyone as well as possibly improving player retention and sales. Therefore the fact that the situation seems to be OK right now really isn't too relevant.
macmacnick:
I personally find the Achievement-based system nicer as it allows for any achievement to count equally to any level, and it is a more unique aspect to GoIO and Velvet, it would not be terribly easy to convert achievements, as you could literally go the same way with the achievements if you wanted to convert them into said hypothetical experience points. however, the achievement system, to an extent allows one to level up even if they were on a loosing streak. Basing levels off of wins would just motivate the culture to shift more so in the Call of Duty direction, motivating people to go for the quick kill, removing the tactics from it all, and above all, motivation to steal the kills of others, which is no bueno.
Omniraptor:
--- Quote from: macmacnick on May 18, 2014, 12:30:54 am ---I personally find the Achievement-based system nicer as it allows for any achievement to count equally to any level, and it is a more unique aspect to GoIO and Velvet, it would not be terribly easy to convert achievements, as you could literally go the same way with the achievements if you wanted to convert them into said hypothetical experience points. however, the achievement system, to an extent allows one to level up even if they were on a loosing streak. Basing levels off of wins would just motivate the culture to shift more so in the Call of Duty direction, motivating people to go for the quick kill, removing the tactics from it all, and above all, motivation to steal the kills of others, which is no bueno.
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basing levels off WINS, not KILLS. That is a very important distinction you seem to have missed. Selfish killstealing and mindless charging will not give you levels if the leveling system is based off wins. Teamwork, planning, tactics, and general skillful play, however, will.
It all depends on whether we want levels to be indicators of skill and prestige, or indicators of how willing you are to grind/farm some inane task.
Squidslinger Gilder:
The level system, after being in it for over a year now, is really just a recognition of dedication. The number of hours you've put into the game and the effort. It isn't so much about skill. However, those hours do amount to something. New players will not win 1v1s against veterans. There is just no way. The playing field is leveled and the game is the same for both, but the experience gap is too large to cross yet.
Games like CoD reward reaction time and memorization. Put the same players in other games like GOIO and they flop simply because the ship becomes the player and the crew becomes the hands, feet, head/etc. If any factor is not in sync, the ship will be ineffective. They can't function under those conditions. GOIO rewards more the people who can orchestrate all that well or adapt well. I'd like to think of the Coddies as more the, fresh meat for the grinder, frontline grunts, and the GOIO players as more the commanders or the special forces unit who see the bigger picture or have to be a cohesive unit.
Hence why GOIO doesn't skyrocket and become ultra popular but is never without dedicated players. Put a Coddie vs a GOIO in an airship fight...that Coddie is grinder bait. Put a GOIO in a twitch FPS vs a Coddie...I'd still bet money on the GOIO player because they'll be the ones thinking ahead and not just relying on reaction times. Coddies can't cross over unless they stop relying on speed and rely more on their head. Unfortunately, we've got a generation now stuck in speed mode.
Dementio:
What does leveling in this game even do for you? It gives you cosmetic items, some dyes, and a few badges. That is what I meant when I said you don't need to level up. You don't actually gain anything from it.
In other games you would have to level up in order to gain more weapons/utility items or you play as many games as you can to gain xp which is also the very currency in said game that you use to buy some characters with it.
In GoIO you already have everything unlocked from the very beginning and this makes leveling up kinda pointless, unless you want a nice badge and a nice number. By winning tournaments or winning against the Devs you gain the rest of the cosmetic items.
This would work with an xp-based level system too, yes, but it seems rather flat, to me, in comparision.
If you want an indicator of skills you look at how many matches this person has played, that's as much as you can do in GoIO. Xp would, in one way, just stand as a synonym for the number of matches you have played.
May your actual level number be as high as it is, at a certain level it makes no difference to most players, no matter what leveling system would be used. What's the difference between level 9 and 15? Level 15 has (maybe) played more and thus maybe knows one or two tricks more out of experience. How significant that knowledge really is depends on stuff.
As a side note, in a xp-based level system you would gain xp based on how good you performed even if you lose, the score board at the end of the match is supposed to tell you that. The score board is just as pointless as the entire level system.
Also, might I ask why, in the name of something important, somebody would choose to level up instead of actually playing the game and have fun if leveling up in this game is pointless from the very beginning? And what do you think people do when they reach lvl 15 on every class? Stop playing the game just because?
Leveling is not the main focus of this game and it certainly is not the reason why certain people keep coming back to play it.
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