Main > Gameplay
1.3.6 Hotfix Flamethrower
XtremeNameX:
I've got a more thorough response coming :) but one main question that sticks out (and I've been meaning to ask this whole thread):
--- Quote from: Dementio on May 05, 2014, 08:49:22 pm ---- More nerf might push the flamer back to the corner of never used guns
--- End quote ---
Was the flamer really such a useless gun before? Obviously the glitchiness needed to be fixed, but as far as it's overall effectiveness, it seemed to have a pretty good role.
I'm brand new to following the competitive scene, but from watching the last few rounds of the Sky League finals there was at least one team (Overwatch) that used a flamer very effectively. They gave the Mandarins a better challenge than the team in the finals did. In addition, Sammy B.T. (whose recent & history of championships should earn him the title of "Foremost Expert" !) is in here arguing that the flamer DID have a role at the highest level.
IN ADDITION, in my 'noob'er games, I used to see the Flamethrower about as much as any other gun. And it seemed very well balanced-- especially with the relatively low level of play in public games, it could be very dangerous if the other team wasn't prepared for it with a good chemspray rotation. As many people have said here, the flamer was quite punishing/frustrating to unprepared teams before, and there were plenty of unprepared teams amongst the general population of the game. So even if Sammy is wrong (and I'm afraid the burden of proof is on you for that one!), and it was a bit too counterable for high level matches, it was at a pretty perfect level of 'counterability' for most of the population of the game. Why would we move away from that??
IN CONCLUSION: If it served it's purpose in public/lower level games (punishing but counterable), AND had a role in high level play (source: Sammy B.T., Sky League champion, Probably Top-5 Player, Leading Expert in Mathematics of Engi Efficiency), why would it need any kind of buff? Why would returning it's functional damage/flame output back to pre-1.3.6 levels be such a terrible nerf?
I get the sense that a lot of the pro-flamer people had a special place in their heart for the flamethrower, but regretted how counterable it was (...if the other team devoted 3+ tools just to counter it..) and now that it's very effective they're afraid of a return to how it was. But how can "how it was" be so bad if it worked well in noob games and took a team to the semi finals (& effectively the finals) of the most recent tournament?
Dementio:
Yes, thank you for pointing out one of my missing clarifications. I thought I had mentioned it somewhere, but I will do it now anyway. I agree with you on the point of the flamerthrower always being a powerful gun. But for some reason not many have used it.
Might I add, that adding the flamethrower does not necessarily beat the Mandarians. Overwatch had demonstrated great teamwork and managed to split the mandarians up, went out of their gun arcs and just picked at the ducks one by one until they died. The carronade alone did the trick, the flamer only added disabling power while everybody was busy on the balloon, effectively rendering their entire ship useless if they managed to get the balloon back up without somebody destroying it again.
The Mandarians needed one another and since they choose the same ship, they had the same weakness in common. Overwatch could effectively beat them in any 1v1 scenario once the carronade went down. Mind you, the carronade did most the work, not the flamethrower.
There is a lot of other stuff that can be said, but I think that's enough to clarify that the flamethrower was not THE gun that led ovw to victory on that one match.
Now, I don't know if you actually know why it was in the patch at all, but I will try to explain it to you why it was:
As most know by now, the flamerthrower's particles have the ability to go through components and the flamethrower shoots tons of that particle stuff at once. These particles had a problem, namely - and I am honestly not sure if I got that entirely correct either - they were traveling so fast that some of these particles weren't calculated correctly, leading to an unpredictable behaviour of the gun. A buf which had to be fixed.
Once this topic was brought up MUSE "fixed" the gun, ergo every single particle hit correctly. This in turn led to a tremendous amount of damage that nobody could deal with it. Before the nerf it was said that double flamer rivaled the power of gat/mortar, which is pretty damn strong.
Now after the nerf, I don't see that problem anymore. It wasn't about the community, it was about fixing a bug and MUSE did fix a buf. This fix however led to an imbalance of the game resulting into a discussion on how to "balance" it again.
I say, it already is balanced and thus won't need more nerf, although I would accept having it's firening speed or AoE decreased, but that's about it.
This "fix" made the gun look more appealing to more people and when more people use it, MORE people use it as well! Spreading like virus.
Really, I think that gun is fine and a damage reduction of 1% won't change anything. Heck, I bet MUSE could say that the damage has been reduced by 25% without actually having reduced the damage (a Hoax!) and most would not know better...
I do believe that those who still are against the flamethrower believe it to be too strong compared to pre-1.3.6 because it gets more use than before. Simply because people use it more.
Let me tell you about ANOTHER one of my experiences in the game:
I once did double flamethrower pyra BEFORE the flamerthrower buff, more than once, and, by the gods, did we annhilate the opposition! If I wouldn't know better, I would say that the Flamethrower is even weaker than it was before the patch! But that might just be subjective gibberish...
Anyhow, I stand and say that this gun is fine for the time being.
If the noobs didn't know how to fight fires before 1.3.6 than they have as much of a chance against it as they did before.
Same with competitive gameplay. If higher levels were beaten up by a flamer before 1.3.6, there wouldn't be much difference to now either.
Nothing changed and if people think that the gun was fine before, it is fine now.
macmacnick:
Anyways, if Sammy wants more fun, I can always arrange that...
...for a price...
...I assure you, it shall be a proper trial by FIRE!!!
Spud Nick:
One good thing about this flamer buff is that we are seeing more squids fly around.
macmacnick:
So, Spud, shall we set the world on fire with our cake front/back flamer side banshee squids?
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