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1.3.6 Harpoon Changes

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Dementio:
The harpoon is pretty powerful, yes, but it's just as risky.
If you use it in close range, you will face a ship ramming you. A galleon can handle the damage and maybe a junkers armor too, but if your armor is low on health or gun in total you will have to face a bit of permanent damage and you cannot escape it yourself. If you hit the enemy wrong then they can still shoot while ramming you, not so good.
If you miss in long range, you will be faced with a rather long reload time. However punishing that is depends on the scenario (you wanna pull the enemy away from your ally or pull them back into the fight to kill them in a 2v1?).

I mean, fine, go 5 harpoon mobula so the enemy can't move, but you can't move either and you might kill yourself in the process.

The harpoon works only so good, man, don't make it worse. If we were to (e.g.) half the force the harpoon currently applies will not be a solution, it would still overpower most ships engines.

The harpoon is an utility gun in not that it disables ships, but in that it changes engagement (at least that's what I think the harpoon is supposed to do). And it fails miserably at that, with the exception of certain scenarios (galleon back seems to be reliable enough).
I have a harpoon that is good for ramming ships or forcing ships to ram me in close range (even though there are better and more secure ways to kill ships in close range), but is really bad at everything else.

I will be honest here, I want a harpoon that allows me to pull ships back into battle incase the enemy wants to escape, which is not possible because physics.
I want a harpoon that allows me to force long range ships to go into medium/close range, which is not possible since the duration last for 5 seconds and that doesn't work for most of the time, I have not tested that reliably though.
I don't want a gun that makes me play bumper karts in mid-air.


What do you think the harpoon is supposed to do? If the force of that gun were to be reduced so much that half of the ship can simply move away from it, then I don't see the point of having the harpoon in the game. Or we are going back to the old harpoon, which negates every effort that has been put into this gun to make this gun better.
And if it takes too long for the harpoon effect to kick in, it might just be too risky to use and people would think if another ship or gun combination choice wouldn't be better instead.

What do you want the harpoon to do? Fish some birds?



Btw, that new heavy gun sounds nice.

Crafeksterty:
They did say they wanted to go back to the Harpoon when they focus on it. Right now it isnt a big focus, the harpoon that we have now is good enough for the meantime instead of the old harpoon.

So we want to enhance what this harpoon can do because it is actualy usable.
But does it do what we want it to do? Not really. On some ships bringing harpoon is detrimental.

For now, the muzzle speed is what does the trick in this situation of the harpoon. People dont rely on it because it is a difficult shot. But imagine being able to rely on the harpoon hitting every time? You would make for some game changing builds, specialy if you proove it :P

Richard LeMoon:
Getting really tired of people saying what it would do, when it has never been tested. 100,000n was tested, yes, but with a 16s or so reload time. It was deemed not strong enough by the few people that tested it for a few matches (the same people that were so wrong about the flamethrower). I said it was strong enough, but needed a shorter reload to see the full effect. Stronger it went, along with a shorter reload. The shorter reload was deemed too powerful, so it was made longer again, while the force just continued to go up. The reload time should never have been tested in DevApp until the force felt right. It just made it annoying to test.

What is with the aversion to testing this?

Crafeksterty:
When 100.000 was tested, it wasnt strong enough for the duration because of the reload. Not the duration, but the reload.

Turn down the reload to the same as the duration you pretty much have constant harpooning. Which you do not want.
Which in turn results to previous harpoon.

We can test this, but the test is then going on a completely different direction. The effect and use is going to change, along with the priority of it.
Right now were fine tuning this harpoon for better use. And this harpoon is good, just needs fine tuning.

Richard LeMoon:
I can honestly say I have no idea what you just said, and am starting to wonder if we are even talking about the same thing.


5 second duration, which it has now in DevApp.

8 second reload, which it also has. Maybe to 9 or 10 if it seems too trolly.

Higher velocity, which it also has.

100,000n, or 1/2 what it is now. Maybe even up to 150k.

And I do not agree at all that the current harpoon is good. I know exactly what we were testing and trying to do, because I helped test it.  Hell, I just looked through the original conversation, and everyone agreed with me about a lower reload for the 100k force. That feedback was ignored and the force was just cranked up and up.

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