Info > Feedback and Suggestions
Point the Goldfish's guns forward
redria:
I think a new heavy weapon would give goldfish the push to be seen more often in competitive play. I also think that this would better protect the goldfish from being OP than trying to find the perfect angle adjustment for the side guns.
@Velvet,
I did not intend to insult you or anyone else in this thread. I realize everyone here is a pretty good pilot. I just think that squids and goldfish are different. By which I mean I can't fly them. I am a firm believer that everyone has a particular mindset when it comes to flying. This mindset can change over time, but your mindset will match 1 or 2 ships and you will be best on them. I fly pyramidion. It is straightforward, I don't have to coordinate my crew excessively, it has enough strength to handle ramming and mistakes, and I can push people around. Flying a squid or goldfish you have to think sideways. I watched Alistair Silas flying a hwachafish against the Clamour on Wednesday night and cringed as I watched him get a hwacha burst, then do a complete 360 spewing fire everywhere before lining up for another hwacha. But it worked. Piloting is about instincts half the time, and if your instincts are not in sync with your ship, it is difficult to use in competitive. So please don't take my comments to be an insult. I more mean it as an indicator that skill does not translate between ships as much as we might like it to.
--- Quote from: Cpt Janeway on April 03, 2014, 07:42:33 pm ---I have stared at a junker, a mobula, and puppy's pyra for almost 2 minutes not being able to do anything...
--- End quote ---
artemis/merc have limited firing angles, and all of those ships are less maneuverable than a goldfish. Were your side guns disabled too? were you putting them in arc while you got your main gun rebuilt? were you trying to get out of arc or were you pretending to be a galleon and just rebuilding the gun facing the enemy hoping you might get a shot off in time?
I realize disabling hurts the goldfish more than almost any other ship, and that probably needs to be looked at, but there should be a fair amount of things you can do to avoid constant disable.
Crafeksterty:
--- Quote from: Spud Nick on April 04, 2014, 10:37:10 am ---The spire got this treatment because it was a glass cannon that needed more cannon. The Goldfish plays a different role and does not need more cannon. However we do need more cannons to play with. Make more heavy guns Muse!
--- End quote ---
This is basically the goldfishes problem. The front gun is the main deal with the goldfish, and there are only 4 of them, 3 which are viable without too many restrictions.
The more heavy guns, the more variations in the ships that use heavy guns will be seen.
-Mad Maverick-:
redria i will quote something a wise man once said,
--- Quote from: Cpt Janeway on April 03, 2014, 07:42:33 pm ---the ability to completely lock down the front gun means you are now relegated to using just one side gun. in what universe is one light weapon viable?
--- End quote ---
i will also quote a less wise but still intelligent man,
--- Quote from: Wundsalz on February 17, 2014, 03:50:51 am ---I agree that the goldfish could use a little love atm.
Nerfing the artemis put aside (disable kills goldfishes), tilting the side guns slightly forward might be a good approach.
Currently the fishy flight style the goldie is supposed to be flown with is relatively rarely seen ingame.
--- End quote ---
Velvet:
--- Quote from: Captain Smollett on April 04, 2014, 12:36:40 am ---Double artemis lumberjack on the second fastest and second most all around maneuverable ship in the game would be in my opinion very unbalanced.
Same for double gat hwacha or double mortar carronade.
--- End quote ---
how so? I feel the lumberthing would be strong but probably not too much. Unlike other long range ships, its DPS is reliant on all of the crew being some distance from important repair areas unlike the other heavy gun ships which have short repair distances, at least when the crew is properly coordinated. It's highly vulnerable to arts; not just the heavy gun being disabled but the low armour would be a significant disadvantage when trying to snipe against Artemis junkers.
I'm not arguing for angles that would make it possible to get 2 gats or mortars on 1 target so I'm not sure what the strength of those 2 builds are. They would be made more powerful, yes, thanks to possible bifectas or shorter turning angles but I'm not aware that those builds are strong or viable at all right now so a buff wouldn't be unwelcome.
--- Quote from: Captain Smollett on April 04, 2014, 12:36:40 am ---As far as fun goes, I really really enjoy flying the goldfish. I've been flying the blenderfish all week and if you handle your engagement correctly it absolutely murders Junkers, mobulas, galleons, squids spires and just about anything that's not a Pyra. Ramming a Junker, Mobula Squid or Spire without a balloon and armor while you still have armor up is frequently an instakill, Galleon's have always been prone to easy balloon locks.
Gunning on a goldfish is also really fun and tense as your whole ship depends on your skill.
Granted, engineering is likely not super thrilling as it involves carefully timed buffs, chem sprays repairs and the occasional side gun shots however it can be a nice ship to engineer on when taking a break from piloting.
--- End quote ---
I don't dispute that piloting and gunning on a goldfish can be as satisfying as on any other ship if not more so. While I can understand you and I agree that the goldfish engineer slot is a nice place to relax from piloting, what with the long walks, fresh air etc.
Unfortunately for the people who like to engineer as their primary playstyle a relaxing ride is probably less appealing.
The other point from the perspective of fun is that because the Goldfish is perceived as weak by some players it's not fielded so often as other ships, which decreases variety in the game and in my opinion this indirectly makes the game slightly less enjoyable than it could be.
--- Quote from: Captain Smollett on April 04, 2014, 12:36:40 am ---What the Goldfish really needs is: A new close range skill based piercing modifier heavy weapon, a change to heavy weapons making them more resilient to breakage and/or easier to rebuild, maybe more maneuverability for funsies (though it really doesn't need it).
--- End quote ---
there are already 2 close range weapons. If the Goldfish relies on a single weapon to make it worthwhile again, it's going to mean a total lack of varied loadouts and a weapon strong enough to do that job might give an unwanted buff to the Galleon too. I feel whatever the buff is it needs to be specific to the Goldfish and definitely not to a specific gun, to avoid unwanted side effects and to ensure that there's more than one viable build for the ship.
--- Quote from: Captain Smollett on April 04, 2014, 12:36:40 am ---In competitive play in most games, teams will usually favor characters or play styles with the highest dps. That being said, I'm sure at some point a team will realize an instakill has really high dps, and may figure out a way to use a Golfish effectively against all the Junkers in competitive right now.
--- End quote ---
I disagree. A large number of teams favour sniping, and I think a significant part of the reason for that is that it's the least risky play style. Ramming and reliance on a single, easily disabled heavy gun is even riskier and less predictable than brawling so I think you're mistaken to think that it could ever win matches reliable or satisfy the requirements of a competitive meta. I also think the predominance of the artemis in competitive play would put the Goldfish at a very severe disadvantage.
@redria: No offence taken, sorry if my phrasing was overly defensive or reactive.
I don't know if I've seen a goldfish, let alone a hwachafish, used to great effect in evenly matched highlevel games recently. I may have missed some, competitive being my primary reference as I think pub matches generally have too high skill differentials and too many unrelated factors that confuse balance issues.
redria:
--- Quote from: Cpt Janeway on April 03, 2014, 07:42:33 pm ---in what universe is one light weapon viable?
--- End quote ---
--- Quote from: Cpt Janeway on April 03, 2014, 07:42:33 pm ---a competent crew armed with even one merc or art.
--- End quote ---
From the same post you claim to be disabled and made useless by a single light weapon. Does the goldfish need some love? Probably. But is it this useless floating target that you seem to see it as? Certainly not.
I guess my concern is that if every ship and every gun can be viably used in competitive play (as things currently stand), then what happens when you buff something? Sure, the only instances of some things working are when one of the best players is using it, but how much is that player going to wreck the scene if you buff them?
Maybe that is the wrong outlook to have in a game with a delicate balance between making casual and competitive fun. But it is the feeling I have when people talk about buffing squid arcs, goldfish arcs, carronades, and flamers. They are all viable right now if just a little bit more risky.
@Velvet, I can post some videos... OVW and the Ducks scrim every Wednesday night. Alistair Silas has been bringing his goldfish pretty successfully, though he has limited internet and hasn't been able to participate in the more public events.
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version