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Realism has had it's fun...

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Squidslinger Gilder:
Now its time to go back to more arcade style PVP gameplay. Seriously.

This movement is growing and I know I'm not the only one. I keep running into players in game who want the faster gameplay back and now I run into newer ones who wish it was too.

So I'm talking today to another and they point out something that really made me stop and think.

How many clans we had a year ago vs now? How many team startups we were seeing vs now? It pales in comparison and we've actually lost more than gained. Players come in fired up, then find out how dull competitive is, get pwned, and then off they go.

Then it hits ya...we're stagnating but its not due to dull ranged combat like everyone suspects. We're stagnating because the game just is too dumbed down. We've had a growing trend to nerfing. Slower ships, less powerful weapons, and arming timers up the wazoo. Everything done to prevent teams from being too strong but at the same breeding a community of range fighters.

When you look at that, it is a no brainer why teams say the heck with heavy brawling and go with range builds. Muse keeps trying to nerf and tune to make ranged play less optimal but we've got a game that makes it so that pilots who take risks have a much greater chance to fail than ever before. We don't just have 1 ship OP, we have a bunch that are under performing and make guns seem more OP than they actually are.

I've been on the fence at times but generally I'd rather see the faster action days back. Yes this coming from one who has done plenty of attrition Merc battles and won with them. But again, had Muse not touched the ships, we'd have never shifted to Merc combat. When it is clear snipers have nothing to fear from cqc teams and cqc teams are left with little to no option of combating a ranged team, something is wrong.

We've had a year under the iron boot of the realism crowd and it isn't working. All too often I hear,"wouldn't it be cool if this could do..." and then have to tell them, "yeah, that is how it used to be!" Then hear the predictable response of,"Why did it change?!!"

Muse you can do it. You've had a year to learn and to fine tune. You can bring back speed to the game without making 2hr flak battles a thing again. Realism has had it's fun ruling the PVP scene. But now you got COOP for that. Isn't it time arcade returns, loads their HF barrels with fistfuls of fun, and then crams it straight up some unsuspecting foe's engine at pointblank range and unloads with fury?!

The Churrosaur:
*starts jumping up and down and cheering energetically*

Thomas:
I'm not sure realism has had all that much of an effect on the competitive scene. Slowing the ships down, dealing with the maneuverability, changing the weapons, etc is all game balance; and very often the complete opposite of realism. I'm no weapons expert, but as far as I know, arming times aren't a thing. If you shoot a rocket, it's going to explode when it hits something regardless how close. As soon as it's fired, it's armed (I believe some of these weapons are based on velocity, which is often achieved immediately after leaving the barrel. This is more of a safety measure so they don't explode when you drop them).


For the competitive scene, there's a lot other bigger factors that affect it.

First is that it's mostly forum based. A lot of players are from steam and couldn't be bothered to check the forums if you paid them to. Most players aren't even aware of the GoIO forums.

Second, and also tied to the first, is the lack of in game clan support. Setting up a clan is a hassle, keeping track of clans is a hassle, keeping track of clan members, organizing them, etc; is a hassle. It's all on the players to do these things and more. Although this will likely see a huge improvement in the near-ish future.

Third is the competitive structure itself. Due to the relatively small population, everyone is put into the same competition. This makes it really hard for newer clans and teams to actually compete; as there's a -massive- learning curve. Hopefully matchmaking will help ease this learning curve, as the players get better, they'll get grouped with better players and get into more intense matches. Instead of being forced to pub-stomp and think you're good; or going through the hassle of setting up a scrimmage with another clan. Then of course there's the casting. Don't get me wrong, I love the competition being streamed, but they tend to be very harsh and unforgiving to any kind of mistake. I've actually seen a clan fall apart and stop playing the game from how the casters acted towards them.

Fourth is the clans, which is actually an odd one. Quick, list all the clans you know! You probably got a fair amount of them before you finished reading this sentence. Now how many members do those clans have? And there's an issue. Some clans just have an incredible amount of players, especially the ones that are well known for competing. It's not the clans' fault really, as most players just like larger clans (or want to be on the winning team). Which is why some clans have well over 100 members, and other clans struggle to get 10. This is where the competitive scene got a little weird, changing from competing clans, to competing teams. Accommodating the large clans who can support multiple teams, and in turn removing some of the disadvantages of joining a large clan (if each clan could only have one team, players would be more likely to join a smaller clan so they could compete. Instead they can join a large clan and still compete).


But that's me going off on a tangent.


--------------------------------

Personally I wouldn't mind ships being a little faster and more maneuverable. But of course you have to consider what that will do to the game. Long range becomes a lot less powerful since ships are more difficult to hit. Close range engagements take longer as well because ships make sudden movements easier to dodge attacks and slip out of bad positions.

Now I do love a brawly build myself, and really enjoy the faster ships (squid), even though it feels like we're flying through mud sometimes with how easy we are to hit, even at top speeds with sudden bursts of movement (hydro, chute, moonshine).

I wouldn't say to go back to a time where ships could dance around each other, but I could get on board with a moderate boost to maneuverability and speed, especially for the ships that rely on those.

RearAdmiralZill:
https://gunsoficarus.com/community/forum/index.php/topic,767.msg13544.html#msg13544

- Rebalanced ship acceleration/speed profiles
-- Top Forward Speed (fastest to slowest): Squid, Goldfish, Pyramidion, Galleon, Junker, Spire
-- Forward Acceleration (fastest to slowest): Squid, Junker, Goldfish, Spire, Pyramidion, Galleon
-- Top Turn Speed (fastest to slowest): Squid, Junker, Goldfish, Spire, Pyramidion, Galleon
-- Turn Acceleration (fastest to slowest): Squid, Spire, Junker, Goldfish, Pyramidion, Galleon
-- Mass (largest to smallest): Galleon, Pyramidion, Spire, Goldfish, Junker, Squid
-- Vertical Acceleration (fastest to slowest, all top vertical speed is 12m/s): Squid, Spire, Goldfish, Junker, Pyramidion, Galleon


- Fixed a bug where ships used different mass values for damage/momentum calculations and for engine acceleration (caused several peculiar situations)

The big one is the last line. Previous to Guns as we know it, all movement was literally bugged, and was thus fixed and balanced. I don't know how you think just making everything faster wont break the balance of the game in some aspect, and you'll just get your nerf hammer back to "realism."

Raskolnikov:
I don't have much comp GoI experience outside of watching streams, but I have played competitively in other games. I think the limiting factor is that there's only one "weight class" as far as ships go. Each ship having four people and each ship having to be balanced against each other makes it difficult to branch out across the spectrum of speed versus heavy. It's like putting heavy weight boxers against a bunch of welter weights and telling them to only use one hand.

I think it would definitely help to implement two-man ships and a game mode that would limit ship choices. This would be much more accessible as it's far easier to find one friend than it is three. It would also provide a more involved experience for both people instead of staring at a mallet, which is a hard selling point for newcomers. You could keep the games base mechanics, but with less focus on a sort of "attrition warfare" based gameplay.

That's obviously a lot of work, but what should immediately be added is ranked matchmaking with a deterrent on leaving. This would create a stronger incentive to win and involve yourself in the competitive scene and discussions more. If not a per person rank system, than at least a clan based one.

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