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Let's talk gun damage/balance

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CallMeCoop:
I find this to be a really touchy subject personally, mainly from the point that with the wide variety in damage, fire rate, reload time, range it can be a touchy subject. Also if anyone had access to shots/sec I would much appreciate those numbers. Lastly we will mostly be using other guns as base examples of seeing why a gun is truly weak or unsatisfying

List of guns with underwhelming damage:
Echidna Light Flak Cannon
Banshee Light Rocket Carousel

list of guns with overwhelming damage:
Artemis Light Rocket Launcher
Hades Light Cannon

I would love to hear your guy's input on these guns
You may notice most of these guns are ranged: more guns to be added at a later date! (Maybe idk, Love you)

Some basics:
A quick note about arming time from my understanding
-when a shot is not armed it only deals the direct damage of the gun
-when it is armed it deals the aoe damage the gun has to offer

damage:
-all guns deal damage twice so long as it's armed (the exception being the flame tongue)
-the first type of damage is direct damage
-the second type is aoe, it hits everything around where your shot landed
-all guns have different aoe sizes
-some guns have 0 aoe meaning both damage types is applied to where you hit

Damage Matrix:
effects the amount of damage your gun deals to certain ship parts
-exp: explosive damage is effective against hulls, but not hull armor, engines/guns and balloon



Let's talk about the light flak first:
This is gun with only explosive damage is meant to be the end of someone's ship. With only 6 shots and generally rapid fire you better make them count!
Cons:
-arming time
-range
-clip size/damage

Pros:
-rapid fire
-good arc
-made my cry when an ally had nothing but them on his squid

the sand reality this gun even if arming time was removed from it. It would still be weak
Provided all the shots are direct shots to the hull with standard amo types
the total damage of the gun to the hull before reloading is 450 damage with 6 shots at 875 range
compared to the Artemis which has over 50% more range deals 440 damage to hulls in 4 shots
While the Artemis has a slower fire rate it's effectiveness against the hull sadly beats the flak



Next Gun the banshee:
This gun is meant to harass you opponent by setting fires. When the chance comes it gets to freely chip down the hull. Followed by rinse and repeat. pew pew FIRE!
 
Cons:
-damage/clip size

Pros:
-firing speed
-good arc
-has a fire chance 26 percentish causing 2 stacks of fire

This gun is no where near as bad as the flak and can still be used specially in the ranged harass area, but with only 2 stacks you may need more then one to make effective use of the harass or something else that causes fires. This gun is still a little outclassed by the artemis. Artemis has something over a 10% range advantage on banshee. While the banshee has only 8 more damage on hull (assuming all shots from one clip with regular rounds) while the Artemis has shatter damage to go with it. It's hard to say whether Artemis is strong or banshee is weak, or maybe both...



HUGE damage time
Artemis rocket launcher:
the ultimate harass weapon two or three shots will kill and engine or gun and a precise shot kinda makes it hard to keep said thing up again. and when the hull starts to go it will begin to chip away on that as well. disable then kill i guess

Pros:
-awesome range
-two damage types and plenty of damage from each type
-no arming time
-easy to fire (not as much with the latest patch but still easy)
-awesome arc

cons:
-firing rate is decent at best

Man huge advantage in its range and damage. It outclasses many things even though they maybe closer range. 3 shots deal somewhere around one merc's shatter damage. while the base explosive damage slowly takes the hull out if it goes down.



One last gun for Now
Hades:
with a big arc and fire damage this gun melts though armor, balloons and hull. Master the arc and the arming time and your gonna be hurting, burning and melting a lot of things

Pros:
-fire damage
-two damage types
-big range
-good firing rate
-good reloading time
-decent arc
-did i say damage?

Cons:
-arc
-arming time

This gun is amazing. the Damage it deals is just crazy at its range which is a little more then the Artemis. to put it in perspective assuming normal rounds and direct hits to the hull it has a little under 80% damage of the Gatling at over three times the range and still causes fires. It's still effective against the hull even to the point to where, if the gun doesn't have arming time its still doing good damage. The bonus damage to balloons is enough to keep people from being able to rebuild the balloon if it goes down.


Any changes you guys would like to see any guns or any gun you want an overview of? I personally would like to see more damage on the light flak and more fire stacks with small% change on the banshee. While the artemis be good at one of Two damages not great at both and I can't even think for the hades maybe less range...

Captain Smollett:
You should join the dev app.

Not only will you be able to test builds before they launch there is a ton of balance conversation happening with the devs on a daily basis.

Contact keyvias@musegames.com for access to the dev app and forum.

Most of the weapons you've brought up are frequently discussed and are actively being looked at by awkm.

RearAdmiralZill:
I will say that I don't think the banshee needs any buffing. You trade sheer damage for the fire potential, the arcs it provides makes it very useful on awkward gun arcs, and the traverse speed makes it good for all ranges. It's previous form was spammed for awhile as it shot too fast and was just better at pumping out damage vs guns like the artemis. Just because something does more raw damage doesn't make it naturally better.

Alistair MacBain:
While i think that Hades and LFlak need to be adjusted i totally dislike the idea to compare such different guns with each other.
Those guns all fit a different role so you cant compare them to each other.

The Light Flak sure needs some buffing but that is something the devs are currently looking at and will be or is (not sure bout that) in the dev app.
The Hades could probably need a slight nerf. The Hades is meant to be a midrange armor piercing weapon which adds the distraction effect from the fire stacks instead of the brutal armor instakill the  gat does.
The gat is the closerange weapon for armor piercing and is in a great spot. But the Hades outperforms its longrange alternative the mercury atm. With lesmok it still does a quite similiar if not better (havent done the math bout that) armorpierce the merc can do. But it outranges the merc when lesmok is loaded which just isnt a good ammo for a merc.

But the other 2 guns are in a decent spot atm.
THe Artemis just got nerfed and is a mid/longrange shatter weapon which is meant to disable the enemy. Additionally it deals a bid of explosive damage so it can do ok damage gainst permahull once another gun stripped the armor.
But it is not able to be a quick finishing blow like a flak. Even with the current spot of the flak. I like the current spot of the artemis. It is a nice to have weapon but nothing i would mass out atm. It adds longrange disable to the roster of sniping weapons.
The banshee is a pretty unique gun. It is meant to distract the enemy by just putting multiple stacks of fire on the enemy. Addionally it can do quite decent dmg to the permahull. It is meant to fire constantly do do as much distaction as possible.
With its really low reload time it can do this. Spam the shots in and still get shots in while the enemy armor is down.
If it really needs a buff than just a slight one. But i kinda like it atm.
The carronade banshee setup is something to really annoy an enemy and still do decent damage to the enemy permahull.

Frogger:

--- Quote from: Alistair MacBain on February 28, 2014, 01:16:01 pm ---But the Hades outperforms its longrange alternative the mercury atm.

--- End quote ---

It takes a damn good gunner for a Hades to outperform a merc above 1000m.

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