Goals and Ramifications of Matchmaking

[Dev Bubbles]

@Byron, yeah totally understand, but we'll still need to conduct testing in a way for us to get meaningful results.  And really, some of the things are more nuanced.  If you think about it in terms of your use case:  Ex. this is what I like about the current system, how does the new system help or hinder this use case, and what is the gap or why does it hinder for example.  This we can then readily digest and work on.  Cuz ultimately we want to design a system that can help us address pressing issues with the game, but also make sure that valid use cases are taken into account. 

What you actually don't need to right now is to commit to a like or dislike.  In fact, that is perfect.  This way, when you test, you are not biased either way.  So this mindset is actually great.  Just keep in mind that we are not trying to get you to like something, or to dislike something right now.  We just want you to help us test it and give meaningful feedback so we can not only address the issues we set up to address, but also to make sure good use cases are not adversely affected. 

[Tropo]

@ Dev
we are all adult's don't think anyone here has tested with bias
when i test some thing it will be my option as a gamer and aim would be to find bugs in the game
and if possible to break some thing in game i would probably do so

[Chango]

I think this is too much... Improve the match list, don't get rid of it.

Lobbies have created some of the most memorable moments for me in this game. Sorry to post about this without testing nor reading the whole thread. But I think this issue is very important. You need to really think if the Goals outweigh the Ramifications on the first post. Severing the Social Aspect of this game for a Quick-Join system that would only benefit those who can't handle reading the lobby list. Then if the majority of the community uses Custom Matches, wont you still have the performance/bottleneck issues that are bringing this change?

When I play, I log on, see what friends of mine are on, browse the match list to see what maps/match-sizes are being played, and try to socialize with friends and newbs alike. This proposed idea will ditch what I do, someone who has played since beta, for a system that will be buggy for awhile.

I want to look at the menu to decide what pizza I want, not for the pizza man to bring me what he thinks i should have without my consent. Or even worse, this sounds more like grabbing a slice at the local gas station because i can't wait for the damned pizza man...

[Dev Bubbles]

@tropo, yep definitely.  Lol, and of course appreciate all your help tropo!
Thanks a lot! 

[Dev Bubbles]

@chango, actually not really for performance.  The performance issue is in the match list itself. 
And yeah, we are definitely conscious of the socialization aspects of everything, and we're trying to account for that, so no disagreements there.  Thanks!

[Chango]

When dealing with a problem in life, I follow the KISS mentality. Keep It Simple, Stupid. I feel like you are trying to solve simple problems with a complex solution. I don't really see the need for this. Gives us more options in creating lobbies, setting filters, to create a way to find matches easier.

[Captain Smollett]

In regards to skill ranking I actually think it's rather important to separate pilot skill from gunner/engineering skill since the skill set is so astronomically different.

As someone who's played more than my share of goi I consider myself a pretty good pilot and have a fantastic win % as a pilot.  Interestingly enough though my win ratio as an engineer is decidedly average. Now I don't know if this is typical of most pilot mains or if its just me trying to train too many people but as a pilot I always feel like I have control of the battlefield and the ever present opportunity to win. Since my only responsibility is to fly I'm able to survey the battlefield and manage both my crew to optimal efficiency and my ally (and crew) until we win. As an engineer I'm too focused on fixing and shooting things to take in the full picture.

Pilots select ships, strategies, loadouts and builds and have the largest bearing on winning or losing. They should have a seperate rating and that rating should be given more weight in matchmaking.

Obviously a pilot is nothing without their crew and even the best pilot is only as good as his worst crewman. Still I feel a pilot should carry a bit more weight with their ranking equal to a third of a ships total rank and the crew making up the rest.

Now people may wonder why I've lumped engineers and gunners together.  At the higher levels of play people like Yiski and N-Sunderland have mastered gunning and engineering respectively. No one would think of having Yiski main engineer or Sunder gun however almost every ship has at least one gungineer and a ranking system can't really determine that Yiski is winning every match as a gungineer and Sunder every match as a main so for now it makes more sense to combine them.

Piloting though is just so different, and I really think it should be seperated.

[Captain Smollett]

I also wanted to state a concern I have with the automatic lobby starting timer. 

Generally speaking the majority of my time in the lobby is spent trying to cajole and communicate with my crew to take the required tools for the build/strategy I plan on using.

Normally this doesn't take much time since experienced and communicating players can manage this within 10 seconds.  Unfortunately newer players and players who don't speak English often take a very long time for me to explain which tools and or how to take the tools required.  Typically if I'm not playing with clan mates roughly 50% of my matches will include a player that takes longer than average to equip the suggested loadout.

One way to speed up the process would be to have ship loadouts also include crew loadouts.  What I mean is that if for instance if I wanted to run a three engineer close range brawler pyramidion I could set the loadouts for all three crew members.  When I joined a match or crewmembers joined one I was in they would automatically equip one of the three required engineer loadouts.  They could of course change it if they wanted however we wouldn't have to bother going through all the necessary asking, explaining and other that tends to hold up match starts.

Without something like this implemented I could foresee myself joining a match with only 45 seconds left on the count down, asking someone to change a ridiculous or unoptimized loadout, get no response or an incorrect loadout and deciding to leave the match rather than go through the frustration of playing with an incapably equipped/ uncommunicative crew thereby either holding up the entire match or leaving a ship without a pilot.

[Tropo]

hmmm with the classes skill being measure all as one

im a great pilot and a extremely good gunner but due to lag disinking and over stuff i would honest say im the worst engineer in the game

also under your current rating system the worst the pilot dose the better the crew dose so is it wins per ship or wins per games ?

[Dev Bubbles]

@Smollett yeah noted.  Right now based on what we set, you'll have more than 45s, but that's adjustable of course.  It's one of the things we're collecting data for.  By the way, when are you coming in?  Let me know! 

[Dev Bubbles]

@chango, if you want to ask me, the decision is reached after a long thought process and feedback collection, but it's actually pretty simple for me.  Given the the persistent issues with the current system, given it being the single biggest limiter of growth performance wise, can I still patch up the current system.  I determined that the answer is no longer yes after months of patching it up.  Can we devise a new system that can address the issue of the old system and keep the benefits of the old?  I think I can.  It'll take iterations, willingness to work with the community, and time to improve it, but I think I can.  Change is tough, because it makes people uncomfortable, but once I feel like pros and cons tips the other direction, change is needed, and I can't be afraid to make that change. 

Also, keep in mind that as we go to co-op and console, as Gilder pointed out, we're going match making for sure. 

Thanks

[Queso]

How about the opposite of a ready button? If enough captains agree, the timer gets delayed a little longer.

[Dev Bubbles]

@Queso, I think I'm already a step ahead   Well, I'm not sure if I'm ahead, but I have already taken a step.  You'll find that the ready button is still there, and you'll find that there is another button for extra time.  So, in the match lobby, there is a countdown with a preset time (this is system configurable obviously).  The countdown's aim is to try to strike that balance between enough time for readiness even with new players and taking forever.  If team captains hit ready by majority, the match can start sooner.  But, if teams need more time, each team can hit a button for extra time once (the time again is configurable by system).  Initially we are configuring initial start to be 90s or 120s, and extra time to be 30s each.  So default time in lobby is tentatively set at 150s-180s.  In custom match, it behaves exactly like it currently does.  Every match time in testing will be logged automatically, so we can use data to adjust timer if we need. 

This is the mechanics, and of course people will want to know the reasoning and logic.  I 'll pause and just give you guys a chance to think about it, and I can come back and answer questions.  For now though, need to get some work done. 

Thanks! 

[Dev Bubbles]

@chango, but one of the most important things is balancing ease of match start with socializing.  It's definitely top of mine for us.  Thanks! 

[Omniraptor]

Bubbles, the problem is that the sort of scenario where a new player needs to be slowly taught the basic user interface and how to change loadouts will never happen in dev app.

I'm still opposed to a hard time limit of any sort, because there will ALWAYS be a newbie confused or clueless enough to exceed it, and then the whole game is ruined because one ship is practically missing a crewmember. Captain-set loadouts would solve this though.