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Junker OP?

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redria:

--- Quote from: Sammy B. T. on February 20, 2014, 04:41:44 pm ---26 Flares low

--- End quote ---
....... I want. I don't know how, but I want.

3v3, double gat pyra and 2 all flare mobulas. Shred the hull, then open up with 20 charged ammo flares?

In seriousness, the mandarins are very very good at using the strengths of the junkers combined to work together. I will support the best junker based team claim. That said it is very possible to take them out. Not necessarily easy, but possible. Junkers just force you to be aware of 2 different ranges on one ship. Only the galleon is comparable, and galleons have huge blindspots you can sit in instead of worrying about which side you are on. Junkers aren't OP. Just unique.

Sammy B. T.:
Charged buff flares would bring down the needed number to 18 so get two mobulas one with 5 flares and one with 4 flares and a Gatling. Use the Gatling to shred armor after preloading and prebuffing the 9 flares and then let them rip.

Totally viable.

Frogger:
lol

Anchorshag:
Thanks for the replies guys, especially the damage table and stuff. Very helpful!

Thomas:
I think the 'large balloon' is mostly because it does have a large balloon compared to it's hull. Most other ships have balloons that are relatively sized to their hull. The squid hull and balloon are about the same, and so is the galleon and goldfish, the mobula. The only ships with small balloons compared to the hull (in my opinion) are the spire and pyramidion.



The problem with getting close to a junker to goomba it, is that you have to get close a junker. There's almost no safe spots to approach from, and the junker has some of the most open views of any ship (pyra, goldfish, galleon, squid, mobula all have stuff blocking a lot of their view. The spire has a pretty open view, unless you want to look backwards.)

Then you have to get at their balloon height. If you're on a pyra, they rise faster than you do, so you're more likely to their hull, making them rotate as you casually shoot past them. Being a junker, they still have guns on you, while your front guns are facing the wrong way.



Ideally you could take advantage of the junkers components, since their guns are quite close on the sides, and you should be able to take out the turning engines easily. Taking out the turning engines also means that at least one person has to abandon their post to go fix them. But then it just turns into a sniping match, and whoever has better accuracy wins. You could bring a ship with heavy guns, but those are much easier for a sniping ship to take out. Sticking with light guns, you'd want at least 3 to match their firepower, and this means junker, pyra, or mobula (or spire I suppose). If you choose a pyra you have a hard time going with both close and long range loadouts, especially if you want the triple long range. This means you have to tilt your ship at an odd angle and make a bigger target. Being mostly hull, the pyra is at a huge disadvantage in piercing/explosive fights. The mobula can also bring close and long range loadouts like the junker, but you only have a frontal direction, if they sneak up on you, it's over. Both the mobula and junker have hull and balloon components very close, and in a long range fight, both are going to take damage. This makes the engineers on the mobula more or less abandon their gun spots to try and survive. Then of course if you choose a junker, you're a junker.



So how do you kill a junker? Especially one with a high functioning crew (buffs, chem spray, awareness, accuracy, teamwork).

Depending on the map, you might be able to get away with some lumberjacks. Assuming you can break their balloon more than they can break your guns. Get them low enough, and it's harder for them to take out your guns. Of course the longer the range, the bigger the height difference has to be. I wouldn't recommend a close range carronde. The small downward angle on that gun usually means that your ship is in firing arc of their close range guns.

Another option might be to give up on the explosive weapon and double up on the piercing. A buffed junker hull has a crazy amount of armor, but a low amount of HP. Ideally you might be able to just power it down with gatling bullets alone, and having two gats also lets you disable their guns and engines. It's a bit of a slow grind, but it shouldn't take more than a couple clips each. Greased or charged and the dps goes up too.

Then there's pure hades. That gun itself is pretty wicked, but it doesn't matter if it hits hull or balloon. Sure it won't be starting fires, but it still packs a punch and can take down either/both.



Of course these are specifically for junkers, which is kind of cheating (although a double hades will mess anyones day up); as you can counter most other ships through positioning alone, without having to bring a special loadout just for them.

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