Author Topic: Where, What, and How? An Engineer's Guide  (Read 10539 times)

Offline N-Sunderland

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Where, What, and How? An Engineer's Guide
« on: March 13, 2013, 12:31:36 pm »
Where, What, and How? An Guide To An Engineer's Role On Each Ship

**Note: This guide assumes that you already know the use of all tools and the functionality of repairing. Make sure you understand those before reading this guide.**

The engineer class is arguably the most difficult role on Guns of Icarus Online. There are just so many variables involved. You'll often find yourself being shouted at for not repairing the right part, not shooting, wasting your time buffing, etc. It can sometimes be hard to keep track of what the engineer should be doing on each ship, so this guide is here to give you a rundown of how to deal with each situation.


Pyramidion
Engineers: 2

Engineer #1

The first engineer's role is to stay on the lower deck at all times, keeping all of the ships's vital components up (save for the balloon). This engineer must invariably bring a mallet, spanner, and fire extinguisher, in order to get the most out of all repairs. It's generally recommended that you stay near the hull. Other things you may do include spotting, manning the left guns whenever possible (resist the temptation to shoot if the hull is in trouble, though), and fixing the engines. The engines on the Pyramidion are a special case, since they're the only ones in the game that can be hit in succession by a single engineer walking back and forth in a straight line. The key to this is hitting the main engine by looking up and whacking from underneath. With this unique layout, it's much easier to deal with kerosene and moonshine than on any other ship. The engines are also placed conveniently close to the hull. Use the repair cooldown from the mallet on the hull whenever possible to run over to the engines and fix them. The lower left gun is also nicely placed, and it only takes a couple of seconds to jump off of it and get back to repairs. You probably want to ignore the back gun, since it puts you far enough from the hull that you could sustain serious damage while running back. That pretty much sums it up for the main engineer.

Engineer #2

The second engineer takes on the role of a gungineer. They'll be staying on the top left gun for the majority of the game. A gungineer on a Pyra should only ever leave their gun if the balloon needs repairs. For this, the standard kit of mallet/spanner/extinguisher is necessary. The gungineer should never jump down to the lower deck unless specifically asked by the captain. This will usually only happen if there's nothing to shoot and engines are down. Sometimes in this situation the captain still won't ask for repairs, but if the ship is in serious trouble it's always good to consider going down and helping. The gungineer might also need to put a fire out for the gunner on occasion. Some captains also like to have their secondary engineers jump down to protect the hull when an enemy comes into the Pyramidion's broadside. This strategy allows for longer broadside passes, but has the downside of taking the gungineer far away from their gun. It's up to the individual captain to decide whether they want to do this or not. Anyways, that should cover everything to do with the gungineer.

-Alternative-

Engineer #3

It's not uncommon to see a Pyramidion running three engineers at a time. Having the third engineer comes with the following possible benefits:
-They can put fires out on their own gun
-They can fix their guns quicker
-Alternatively, they can buff parts
The only downside is the loss of two ammo types. The effect of this is reduced, however, if the top right gun only gains a major benefit from one type of ammo. Such guns include the commonly used ones like the Mercury Field Gun (charged rounds), and to a lesser extent the Whirlwind Light Gatling Gun. Even the light flak is perfectly fine with only heavy clip.

-Side Field Guns-

I want this guide to cover as much as possible, so I thought it would be worth mentioning a popular strategy that temporarily changes how the engineers do their job. When the captain has equipped the Pyramidion with two field guns on the left side and tells his crew to start sniping, one of the engineers will have to get on a gun. In this case, the main engineer should have charged rounds ready and take one of the guns, with the other one being occupied by the gunner. The gungineer, seeing as he'll only have ammo for his usual gun, should be protecting the hull from any oncoming fire.


Galleon
Engineers: 2

Engineer #1

Much like on the Pyramidion, a Galleon's main engineer's job is to stay near the hull and other vital components. However, the extremely different layout means that there are some major differences in what the engineer is doing. Conversely from the Pyra, the balloon on the Galleon is located close to the hull and very far away from the main guns, meaning that the burden of holding it up shifts to the hull engineer. The other important difference is that there is only one engine near the hull, leaving the lower two to the gungineer. There'll also be more gunning to do. While the Pyramidion's left guns are secondary weapons, the left side gun (usually a mercury field gun) on the Galleon is essential to combat. The engineer will spend most of their time near the gun conveniently placed near both the hull and the staircase leading to the balloon. If it's a field gun on the left, then the engineer can spend lots of time shooting before they have to worry about repairs. Once an enemy ship does get close, the proximity of the components and the cooldown of the mallet can be used to form a cycle. Hit the hull, fire a shot or two, hit the hull, etc. If the balloon is targeted, it's actually pretty easy to form a repair circuit by running up to the balloon, hitting it, jumping over past the helm, hitting the hull, and repeating. If the balloon gets seriously damaged, then the situation is a bit tricky, but the helm is conveniently placed close to the balloon, allowing the captain to help out once the going gets tough. Otherwise, the main engineer's last responsibility is to keep the main engine going, which is easy to deal with whenever the hull isn't in trouble. Even so, the Galleon isn't really much of a ship to run away from anything, so the main engine has a lower priority than usual when in the middle of a battle. The rear gun should be left alone until everything else is dealt with and no ships are in the left gun's arc. It's a minimal priority weapon, since it'll only rarely be in arc. Finally, it should be noted that the main engineer has no reason to go down to the lower deck unless the gungineer is neglecting their responsibilities. Before moving on, also note that the mallet/spanner/extinguisher combo is required here as well.

Engineer #2

The second engineer on a Galleon gets to man two of the heavy guns below. They'll be spending the
majority of their time firing these. First off, remember that as a gungineer you should never try grabbing a gun assigned to the gunner. Stay on your designated guns. You'll be getting off your gun to switch sides (of course), fix guns, and put fires out for the gunner. If you're manning a Hwacha, you can use that reload time to your advantage in order to do any repairs needed. If you're manning any other gun, stay on it until engines or guns currently in use start getting seriously damaged. The engines are placed fairly close to the guns; it's best that the pilot assigns you to the back row, in order to let you minimize travel time. Remember, the gungineer is the sole person responsible for the maintenance of the engines. That's just something to keep in mind when the pilot is kerosening or using another captain ability. On the subject of responsibility, remember that the main engineer can probably deal with the upper deck alone. Don't run up the moment the hull breaks. A gungineer should only go upstairs when both the hull and the balloon are down; in this case, the ship will die without assistance. Otherwise, it's not worth the loss in firepower. To conclude this section, I'll note that the gungineer should have the mallet/spanner/extinguisher set, as usual.

-Alternative-

It can sometimes be viable to have the second engineer use a buff kit. This comes with the following boosts:
-The Galleon can overcome its weaknesses and improve its strong points with improved mobility from buffed engines, as well as an increase to its already high hull armour.
-When buffed, the lower guns become insanely powerful.
-The gungineer can use the Hwacha's reload time to buff their gun.

One should note the following disadvantages, however:
-The gungineer loses a lot of repairing and rebuilding capabilities. Rebuilding guns will take a whole lot longer, which can be the difference between failure and survival if the ship is getting hit by an enemy Hwacha.
-There's no time to buff mid-battle, so the effect of the buff will only be limited to a couple of volleys from the guns (if using flak/carronade/lumberjack).

All in all, it's a risky strategy that can pay off immensely if properly used.


Spire
Engineers: 2

Engineer #1

The engineer is an interesting role in general, but to be perfectly honest, being the main engineer on the Spire is the most monotonous role in the game. However, since the ship has very little hull and armour, it's also an extremely important role. The hull itself is far away from most of the important parts of the ship. The balloon, main engine, and a couple of guns are too far up to reach in the middle of a battle. The turning engines are sitting nearby, so the main engineer's second job is to keep those going. The main gun is also a few seconds away, but once you're engaging another ship it's slightly risky to go up and fix it. The engineer should be staying down by the hull for the entirety of the time in a battle situation, as leaving it for a few seconds is enough to let the brittle armour break. The only justification for leaving the bottom deck while still under fire would be to extinguish or rebuild the main gun. There's also a side gun to the left of the main gun, but it will rarely be in arc, and the gunner will likely grab it anyways. All this means that the main engineer will spend most of the game hitting away at the hull, doing no shooting and little spotting (since the ship itself is blocking the engineer's line of sight). Mallet/spanner/extinguisher is a must for the constant hull fixing.

Engineer #2

It shouldn't come as a surprise that the second engineer will be gunning. The gun that they should be using is the front light gun near the helm (often a mercury field gun). The gungineer has two components to keep alive: the balloon (placed nearby) and the main engine (placed fairly close by). The side gun should be mostly ignored. There isn't much to say about this role. The gungineer will do their job perfectly if they keep to their gun, and only repair the balloon and engine when necessary. They might also need to divert their attention to the main gun from time to time, but only when the main engineer can't do so due to major hull repairs. It should be noted that the gungineer should never help the main engineer on the hull. The Spire is a glass cannon, not a tank. It survives engagements by quickly destroying enemy ships, not soaking damage up until they're gone. Therefore, keeping to the gun is more productive. Once again, mallet/spanner/extinguisher is required to repair the balloon as efficiently as possible.


Goldfish
Engineers: 2

Engineer #1

Engineering on the Goldfish is very different from how it is on the Galleon, Pyramidion, or Spire, in that the side guns are of minor importance (the captain should keep the front gun focused on the target for as long as possible), meaning that there is no need for a gungineer. This takes quite a lot of responsibility off of the main engineer;  it could be said that there are two main engineers on the Goldfish. The first one should hold position around the hull whenever in battle, manning the nearby side gun whenever possible. The hull is also close to the front gun, and that proximity should be used by the hull engineer to help administer repairs on it whenever needed. The remaining components are situated far from the hull, and are risky to go for when under fire. The turning engines are fairly close by, though. If the pilot kerosenes, then the hull engineer should be the one going for these. It should also be noted that the second engineer may opt to take a buff kit, in which case the main engineer will have to provide assistance in rebuilding the balloon whenever it breaks (unless the hull is in trouble, of course). As usual, the mallet/spanner/extinguisher set is required for optimal hull repairs.

Engineer #2

The second engineer roams the ship more freely. They will administer any repairs required on engines, the balloon, and the main gun (with assistance from the main engineer whenever possible). Their default position can be just about anywhere on the ship: near the main gun, on the top deck, near the left side gun... Personally, I find that a good spot is on the ship's roof, accessible by jumping up the ropes near the helm (may take some practice). It gives the engineer a full 360° field of vision while allowing them to jump to any spot on the ship in seconds. Anyways, there's one shortcut on the ship to note. When repairing engines, go to the main one first. Then, after hitting that, run back to the ship, and jump over the side and into the turning engine area. This saves loads of time that would otherwise be wasted walking all around the ship. Jumping off the side is also good for getting to the hull from the top deck. The engineer can drop down from a spot next to the helm and land beside the hull. The hull, however, is generally the other engineer's responsibility. Help should only be given if the hull is broken and needs rebuilding (some new players have trouble understanding this, so I'm putting it in).

The second engineer on the Goldfish has two viable options in terms of loadout. The first one is the obvious mallet/spanner/extinguisher for maximum repair efficiency. The other option is to go wrench/buff kit/extinguisher. This gives the usual boost of an improved hull and mobility. It's also particularly useful if the engineer sits next to the main gun, continuously buffing it (taking breaks for repairs, of course). This gives the main gun devastating power, and can make the kills come much quicker. The one downside is the replacing of the spanner and mallet with the wrench. It doesn't make a huge difference for repairs to be honest, but rebuilds become considerably slower, to the point where the hull engineer will have to consider helping out with balloon rebuilds. All in all, however, it's a tactic that can vastly improve the success of a Goldfish if its engineers are well-organized.


Junker
Engineers: 2

Engineer #1

The first engineer has a simple enough job, which mainly consists of staying on the top deck, repairing, and gunning. The hull is placed fairly close to the top side guns, and the balloon is stationed nearby. Though the balloon may seem hard to reach quickly due to the platform it's on, the engineer can actually hit it from underneath by looking upwards next to the helm. This particular placement is extremely advantageous in that the captain can also hit the balloon without having to move away from the helm, allowing them to take a brief break from flying to provide assistance in rebuilds. The turning engines, however, are just out of reach, and require an engineer to climb a ladder and hit them. When kerosening, the primary engineer can handle the turning engines. The rest of the engineer's role varies based on the strategy in use. Generally, the main engineer will handle the top side guns, and repair the hull when needed. Often, however, hull repairs are handled by the second engineer. Mallet/spanner/extinguisher is strongly recommended as usual.

Engineer #2

The second engineer has a more fluid role. What they do depends completely on the captain's approach. Some captains will want their second engineer staying on the top deck, allowing for the hull and balloon to be repaired simultaneously, and letting one engineer shoot while the other repairs. The other main option is to give the second engineer the front gun. This is only advisable if the gun only requires one type of ammo (e.g. The Mercury Field Gun). The advantage to this is that the hull can actually be hit from underneath, much like the balloon. This helps add fluidity to repairing and shooting: the main deck engineer keeps the hull going while the front gun engineer shoots, then the ship turns and they switch roles in a couple of seconds. The way this is edecuted, however, depends on the gun. The captain may have a mercury field gun in the front slot, in which case the engineer uses it to attack targets while approaching (before the ship is close enough to make use of its broadsides). Alternatively, if there's a short range gun (such as a flamethrower), then the gun is only used when the ship is switching sides or chasing an enemy down. The front gun engineer can also help maintain the lower guns and main engine if they become too much of a load for the gunner (who should be fixing them in general). Mallet/spanner/chem spray is recommended, but if both engineers stay on the main deck then whoever is shooting the guns can go wrench/buff kit/extinguisher.

-Alternative-

Engineer #3

The captain may choose to sacrifice a gunner in favour of having a third engineer. Since the light flak is a popular lower deck gun on the Junker, this strategy is completely viable, as the light flak works perfectly with only heavy clip. The engineer will get the bonus of being able to hold the main engine up more easily, while also having an easier time keeping their guns going against damage and fire. Mallet/spanner/chem spray works if the main goal of the third engineer is to have an easier time with repairs, but wrench/buff/extinguisher could also help give the guns tremendous power.


That's all there is to engineering on five of the six ships. I'll add the Squid later on. Remember to provide feedback on what I have so far. If I missed anything, or there's something you don't agree with, make sure to point it out!
« Last Edit: April 28, 2013, 10:23:29 am by N-Sunderland »

Offline HamsterIV

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Re: Where, What, and How? An Engineer's Guide
« Reply #1 on: March 13, 2013, 01:20:20 pm »
On Pyramidion left side engagement I like to have the balloon gungineer keep an eye on the hull. He should stay on the gun deck until he sees the hull drop past 1/2 health then jump down if it looks like the hull engineer is too busy shooting. 1/2 health is just a guideline a good engineer will be able to make the decision on the spot. I covered this in my Battle Stations Guide.
https://gunsoficarus.com/community/forum/index.php/topic,124.0.html

Offline N-Sunderland

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Re: Where, What, and How? An Engineer's Guide
« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2013, 04:49:31 pm »
On Pyramidion left side engagement I like to have the balloon gungineer keep an eye on the hull. He should stay on the gun deck until he sees the hull drop past 1/2 health then jump down if it looks like the hull engineer is too busy shooting. 1/2 health is just a guideline a good engineer will be able to make the decision on the spot. I covered this in my Battle Stations Guide.
https://gunsoficarus.com/community/forum/index.php/topic,124.0.html

I think that the captain should usually try to keep these left side engagements short, though. Long enough for the flamer (or whatever gun is there) to do its work, but the captain should try to get the front guns back in arc quickly. There shouldn't be too much hull damage during this time, and the gungineer would be more useful staying on his gun for when the target comes back into arc.

Offline Helmic

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Re: Where, What, and How? An Engineer's Guide
« Reply #3 on: March 13, 2013, 05:13:18 pm »
For the Pyramidion, if I can't get three engineers and shit starts going to hell, I'll put my gunner on the balloon and have my gungineer go down to the bottom decks to repair the engines while the main engineer sticks on the hull.  If everyone resists the temptation to jump on a gun or do someone else's job, we can at least tank an onslaught for a good few minutes until we can either escape, turn around and start firing, or get our ally to shake the enemy off our tail.  I say to keep the main engineer on the hull because that thing will often lose a lot of health if you give it even a split second of inattention, the engines are merely a means to make less bullets hit the hull in the first place.

Offline Captain Smollett

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Re: Where, What, and How? An Engineer's Guide
« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2013, 05:18:32 pm »
This is really comprehensive. I spend so many days explaining just this at the start of every match. I dream of the world where people read this. Can't wait to see this updated with more ships.

Offline N-Sunderland

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Re: Where, What, and How? An Engineer's Guide
« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2013, 05:28:11 pm »
This is really comprehensive. I spend so many days explaining just this at the start of every match. I dream of the world where people read this. Can't wait to see this updated with more ships.

Glad you liked it! I'll do the Galleon next, I think. It'll be tougher once I get to the ships with more possibilities, like the Squid and to a certain extent the Junker and Goldfish.

Offline N-Sunderland

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Re: Where, What, and How? An Engineer's Guide
« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2013, 05:30:48 pm »
For the Pyramidion, if I can't get three engineers and shit starts going to hell, I'll put my gunner on the balloon and have my gungineer go down to the bottom decks to repair the engines while the main engineer sticks on the hull.  If everyone resists the temptation to jump on a gun or do someone else's job, we can at least tank an onslaught for a good few minutes until we can either escape, turn around and start firing, or get our ally to shake the enemy off our tail.  I say to keep the main engineer on the hull because that thing will often lose a lot of health if you give it even a split second of inattention, the engines are merely a means to make less bullets hit the hull in the first place.

Yup, there will always be situations where the main engineer won't be able to handle the load. This is pretty much the only time when the gungineer should jump down. As I said in the guide, it's best to only do that when the captain asks.

Offline Helmic

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Re: Where, What, and How? An Engineer's Guide
« Reply #7 on: March 13, 2013, 05:34:04 pm »
I think it's worth a special mention, though, shit goes to hell fairly often on the Poop Deck Pricker and that setup requires the crew to know where to go instantly, there's no time for an extended explanation or for me to keep yelling at the gungineer to quit trying to help with the hull until those engines are up.  The captain should also get in there and help with repairs whenever you can't steer or raise or fall.  I explain it at the beginning of full every match, when I say "Full repairs" I want you in those positions and those positions ONLY until you run out of things to fix.

Offline Kyren

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Re: Where, What, and How? An Engineer's Guide
« Reply #8 on: March 13, 2013, 05:35:10 pm »
This is really comprehensive. I spend so many days explaining just this at the start of every match. I dream of the world where people read this. Can't wait to see this updated with more ships.

Glad you liked it! I'll do the Galleon next, I think. It'll be tougher once I get to the ships with more possibilities, like the Squid and to a certain extent the Junker and Goldfish.

Hahaha, don't get us into a competition :D Anyways, very nice job on this one! I see you're considering the Chemical Spray as the only proper option on the Pyramidion? Would you take that as a general thing or just for that ship?

I personally only use the Chem. Spray as a Engineer, but I found the idea interesting to have a Chem. Spray and a Extinguisher Engineer on my ships. I like to have my Chem Spray. Engineers taking care of the Guns and the Hull when we're in a close range engagement with flamers, and the Extinguisher one run around the ship to cleanse those 16 Stack Fires on other parts that don't get so much attention. So far that hasn't happened often, but I find that the theory seems reasonable enough. What's your go on that matter?

Oh, and a Salute of course :)

Offline HamsterIV

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Re: Where, What, and How? An Engineer's Guide
« Reply #9 on: March 13, 2013, 05:50:34 pm »
I think that the captain should usually try to keep these left side engagements short, though. Long enough for the flamer (or whatever gun is there) to do its work, but the captain should try to get the front guns back in arc quickly. There shouldn't be too much hull damage during this time, and the gungineer would be more useful staying on his gun for when the target comes back into arc.

That depends on the ship. I have a duel mercury pyramidion that has close range guns on the side. When the enemy gets close enough to be able to out maneuver the mercury's turning radius, I switch to left side for the rest of the engagement.  I have surprised and killed many ships who assume that because I stay at distance I am vulnerable up close. This strategy's success depends on having a crew that can keep the ship alive while putting out enough DPS to drop the attacker. Having one member of the crew babysitting the balloon when it is not taking damage does not help.

Also using the side guns allows the often ignored hull engineer to get some glory. That is why I like the Pyramidion over the Goldfish, every member of the crew gets to shoot at some point.

Your guide is very good, most of my blabbering is to point out the possibilities of the Pyramidion beyond what you have posted.

Offline N-Sunderland

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Re: Where, What, and How? An Engineer's Guide
« Reply #10 on: March 13, 2013, 05:51:03 pm »
This is really comprehensive. I spend so many days explaining just this at the start of every match. I dream of the world where people read this. Can't wait to see this updated with more ships.

Glad you liked it! I'll do the Galleon next, I think. It'll be tougher once I get to the ships with more possibilities, like the Squid and to a certain extent the Junker and Goldfish.

Hahaha, don't get us into a competition :D Anyways, very nice job on this one! I see you're considering the Chemical Spray as the only proper option on the Pyramidion? Would you take that as a general thing or just for that ship?

I personally only use the Chem. Spray as a Engineer, but I found the idea interesting to have a Chem. Spray and a Extinguisher Engineer on my ships. I like to have my Chem Spray. Engineers taking care of the Guns and the Hull when we're in a close range engagement with flamers, and the Extinguisher one run around the ship to cleanse those 16 Stack Fires on other parts that don't get so much attention. So far that hasn't happened often, but I find that the theory seems reasonable enough. What's your go on that matter?

Oh, and a Salute of course :)

Thanks for the salute :)

My view is based off the recent decline in utility (and therefore usage) of flamers. Since the number of stacks required to shut a gun down has been increased, flamers just can't disable like they used to. I'm not sure about you, but I haven't been seeing anywhere near as many Pyras with left side flamers. So because of this the only advantage gained with the extinguisher has become more situational, and it just doesn't compare to the free fire protection offered by the chemical spray.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2013, 06:38:53 pm by N-Sunderland »

Offline N-Sunderland

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Re: Where, What, and How? An Engineer's Guide
« Reply #11 on: March 13, 2013, 05:53:26 pm »
I think that the captain should usually try to keep these left side engagements short, though. Long enough for the flamer (or whatever gun is there) to do its work, but the captain should try to get the front guns back in arc quickly. There shouldn't be too much hull damage during this time, and the gungineer would be more useful staying on his gun for when the target comes back into arc.

That depends on the ship. I have a duel mercury pyramidion that has close range guns on the side. When the enemy gets close enough to be able to out maneuver the mercury's turning radius, I switch to left side for the rest of the engagement.  I have surprised and killed many ships who assume that because I stay at distance I am vulnerable up close. This strategy's success depends on having a crew that can keep the ship alive while putting out enough DPS to drop the attacker. Having one member of the crew babysitting the balloon when it is not taking damage does not help.

Also using the side guns allows the often ignored hull engineer to get some glory. That is why I like the Pyramidion over the Goldfish, every member of the crew gets to shoot at some point.

Your guide is very good, most of my blabbering is to point out the possibilities of the Pyramidion beyond what you have posted.

Those are some very good points. I still think that it's best to get back to the main guns quickly, but I'll look at adding this into the guide :)

Offline N-Sunderland

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Re: Where, What, and How? An Engineer's Guide
« Reply #12 on: March 13, 2013, 05:54:46 pm »
I think it's worth a special mention, though, shit goes to hell fairly often on the Poop Deck Pricker and that setup requires the crew to know where to go instantly, there's no time for an extended explanation or for me to keep yelling at the gungineer to quit trying to help with the hull until those engines are up.  The captain should also get in there and help with repairs whenever you can't steer or raise or fall.  I explain it at the beginning of full every match, when I say "Full repairs" I want you in those positions and those positions ONLY until you run out of things to fix.

Noted. I'll add some extra detail to the gungineer section about this.

Offline Kyren

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Re: Where, What, and How? An Engineer's Guide
« Reply #13 on: March 13, 2013, 06:02:40 pm »

Thanks for the salute :)

My view is based off the recent decline in utility (and therefore usage) of flamers. Since the number of stacks required to shut a gun down has been reduces, flamers just can't disable like they used to. I'm not sure about you, but I haven't been seeing anywhere near as many Pyras with left side flamers. So because of this the only advantage gained with the extinguisher has become more situational, and it just doesn't compare to the free fire protection offered by the chemical spray.

Aye, that makes perfect sense. I still always wonder how calm the ship, and especially my gunner stays when we're set on fire. I'm used to my gunner panicking, but now.. nothing. Of course I notice the drain in the effectiveness of my engines and balloon, but it isn't crippling. The damage is a problem if a Squid is just above and flaming down on us, but even then it takes precious time until it gets substantial. I guess if we go on like that we'll have to expect a flamer buff again :P

Offline Phoebe

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Re: Where, What, and How? An Engineer's Guide
« Reply #14 on: March 13, 2013, 06:22:40 pm »
Thanks for the useful guide  :)