Info > Feedback and Suggestions
Buff the Junker
Pickle:
The Junker is a average-poor close quarters ship in the hands of the average player, but by far the best long-range sniper platform of any ship in the game (double Mercs having a far greater range and accuracy than the Heavy Flak broadside of a Galleon). In theory, the Pyra should be the equal as a sniper platform but the Junker has a better layout for crewing. See the Junker Fight Club thread for how this works if you've not tried using the Junker this way.
The Junker does work well with an AI crew, it's far superior to the Pyra in this respect - the Pyra having the worst layout for AI. On a short-handed match with AI crews I'd take either the Junker or a Goldfish over the other ships. The AI crew is particularly good on the Junker when maneouvering with Hydrogen and Chute Vent at close quarters. If you want to take a Junker into the heat of the battle, these two tools are essential.
In an average match the only ship that causes me concern when flying a Junker is the Pyra due to it's speed and forward facing guns, I know that against average crews I can take out any ship on the map with the Junker if my opponents allow me to play the match to my own terms. In a premier team match, the Junker still has it's place but you need a coordinated team that matches the skills of the opposition.
There was a discussion on the old forum about buffing the Junker, and I think my choice remains the same - if the Junker gets a buff my preference is for a speed buff to match the speed of the Galleon. If not speed, then a minor arnour buff.
There are some comments in the opening post that don't make sense to me.. the one about armour/hull health. It doesn't matter how long it takes to repair the armour, as long as there is some armour it's protecting the hull. The comment about Junker vs. Galleon and range, the Mercury has the longest effective range of any weapon, and the Junker can bear two onto a target whilst the Galleon can bear one. It's not unusual to be in a long-range match with a Galleon with their Heavy Flaks bursting black smoke 50 yards short of your Junker, whilst you're scoring effective hits against specific components on the Galleon. A Junker can close on a Galleon with the front gun bearing on the target, whilst a Galleon cannot close whilst training a gun onto target, except at very oblique angles of approach.
I've introduced several players to the Junker as a long-range sniper after it was introduced to me, and about half are struck by how effective it is and stick with it for several matches. Admittedly it's most effective against Captains that don't appreciate it in that role and are left three map squares away wondering, "WTF is happening to my armour/hull?" Any sensible opposing team will get together and rush a long-range Junker, trying for a 2v1 CQB where the sniper Junker is vulnerable without team support.
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The Gameplay sedction of the GOIO website still describes the Junker as having a stern-chaser light mount to deter pursuers. That would be an even better buff than either speed or armour.
N-Sunderland:
--- Quote from: Hubert PIckle on March 12, 2013, 04:39:15 am ---The Gameplay sedction of the GOIO website still describes the Junker as having a stern-chaser light mount to deter pursuers. That would be an even better buff than either speed or armour.
--- End quote ---
That would actually help a lot when countering carronade Squids.
Jinrai:
I agree completely with this post, I think the Junker would be way more viable with some extra speed/manouverability.
Saluted OP for the carefully constructed theory he layed down here. Agree with Hubert on the fact that the Junker has more extreme range
potentiality than the Galleon, but the Galleon has the advantage on long/mid range.
Never thought of a mercury setup on a Junker, I'm certainly going to try that out soon.
Thanks for this great discussion :)
Cpt. Yami:
I agree with you wholeheartedly. The Junker was the first ship I ever flew, and it has been my favourite ship since the beta. That being said, it does suck compared to other ships.
The main reason being the fact they swapped the hull and armor around. It used to have 700 hull and 500 armor, but they swapped it for some reason and it has suffered ever since. Having 700 armor really isn´t that much since the tradeoff is having a weaker hull on a ship which isn´t that impressively fast compared to others. Let´s take for example a junker facing a galleon. In most instances other ships would have the speed needed to fully or partially dodge a dual flak broadside, giving your engineer(s) ample time to rebuild the hull. The junker however does not. Once its hull is down, you better have either hydrogen of chute vent equipped, because that is the only way to survive the oncoming onslaught. 700 armor goes down in 3 seconds because every decent captain will have atleast 1 light flak or other explosive dmg weapon aboard his-her ship. Any ship, not just the galleon as I used as an example. And I have used double merc loadout before, and it does work IF you have either people who can use them. Not necessarily though, AI are good shots too. But in 2v2 and 3v3 a duo merc loadout only works effective if you're flying with some capable allies. Else you'll just sit by the sidelines taking potshots at enemy airships which are anihilating your friends. And I doubt that Muse intended this ship just to be a sniper platform.
Captain Smollett:
First and foremost thank you to everyone for reading and replying to this. It's always good to hear from the community.
--- Quote from: Hubert PIckle on March 12, 2013, 04:39:15 am ---The Junker is a average-poor close quarters ship in the hands of the average player, but by far the best long-range sniper platform of any ship in the game (double Mercs having a far greater range and accuracy than the Heavy Flak broadside of a Galleon). In theory, the Pyra should be the equal as a sniper platform but the Junker has a better layout for crewing. See the Junker Fight Club thread for how this works if you've not tried using the Junker this way.
The Junker does work well with an AI crew, it's far superior to the Pyra in this respect - the Pyra having the worst layout for AI. On a short-handed match with AI crews I'd take either the Junker or a Goldfish over the other ships. The AI crew is particularly good on the Junker when maneouvering with Hydrogen and Chute Vent at close quarters. If you want to take a Junker into the heat of the battle, these two tools are essential.
In an average match the only ship that causes me concern when flying a Junker is the Pyra due to it's speed and forward facing guns, I know that against average crews I can take out any ship on the map with the Junker if my opponents allow me to play the match to my own terms. In a premier team match, the Junker still has it's place but you need a coordinated team that matches the skills of the opposition.
There was a discussion on the old forum about buffing the Junker, and I think my choice remains the same - if the Junker gets a buff my preference is for a speed buff to match the speed of the Galleon. If not speed, then a minor arnour buff.
There are some comments in the opening post that don't make sense to me.. the one about armour/hull health. It doesn't matter how long it takes to repair the armour, as long as there is some armour it's protecting the hull. The comment about Junker vs. Galleon and range, the Mercury has the longest effective range of any weapon, and the Junker can bear two onto a target whilst the Galleon can bear one. It's not unusual to be in a long-range match with a Galleon with their Heavy Flaks bursting black smoke 50 yards short of your Junker, whilst you're scoring effective hits against specific components on the Galleon. A Junker can close on a Galleon with the front gun bearing on the target, whilst a Galleon cannot close whilst training a gun onto target, except at very oblique angles of approach.
I've introduced several players to the Junker as a long-range sniper after it was introduced to me, and about half are struck by how effective it is and stick with it for several matches. Admittedly it's most effective against Captains that don't appreciate it in that role and are left three map squares away wondering, "WTF is happening to my armour/hull?" Any sensible opposing team will get together and rush a long-range Junker, trying for a 2v1 CQB where the sniper Junker is vulnerable without team support.
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--- End quote ---
Hubert, while I agree with you that the Junker makes a good sniping platform. I truly believe that the Pyra is superior at this role. Duel merc on the front of a Pyra allow much more versatility in combat. If an enemy approaches the Pyra, it can back peddle keeping the enemy out of range. If the enemy closes, the Pyra can fly forward, pass the enemy and then fly backwards to its teammate all while maintaining fire and positional advantage. A Junker can't reposition and is forced to make a turn and try to duke it out.
I suppose I should clarify my statement on not taking an AI crew on the Junker. I'll almost never take any ship into combat without at least one main engineer. But with a Junker I won't take it into combat without two. The reason for this is that on a Pyra, Galleon, Goldfish etc, one human can do a significant amount of engineering on their own and the AI does a good job running around where that human isn't. On a Junker however the human has to stay on the hull and the AI get's a bit lost. It will climb all the way to the top to fix the balloon and go all the way to the bottom of the junker to fix the rear engine. This means that frequently the AI isn't even in the part of the ship you need them to be in at all. On a Pyra I just set them to gun and flip on F3 every time I need them to hit the balloon, then switch them right back. Furthermore with so many guns on a Junker both enemies are often within arc. It's really difficult to get the AI to shoot at the one you want when on a Junker. Other ships you just turn your ship out of arc of the second opponent.
As far as armor times, I'm specifically talking about rebuild time. When armor breaks it takes different amounts of time to rebuild depending on the overall max armor. For example a squid takes about 3 seconds to rebuild and a goldfish takes about 4. The higher the max armor the longer the rebuild.
As far as a sniping match against a galleon goes, it's true that you'll outmatch a galleon with just Flaks over really long range however the Medium sniper weapon is the Lumberjack, not the Flak. A good gunner can hit clear across the map with a Lumberjack. For proof of this watch the second Paddling vs Gentlemen match on the Fjords. The Gentlemen hit the very first Lumberjack shot clear across the map hitting squash as soon as the match began. The Junker is far more susceptible to this than the Pyra due to its significantly larger balloon.
Anyways thanks again for the replies. I'd love to hear from even more of the community on this issue. Maybe this will gain enough prominence for Muse to see it and perhaps eventually buff the Junker into competitive use.
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