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1.3.3 GUNS AND GUNNER SKILL BALANCE

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The Djinn:
So here's a question for people that may help us a bit...

Let's assume we have the following combat ranges: Distant, Long, Medium, Close, and Intimate, just to pick names out of a hat. What would your ideal gameplay involve at all ranges?

My thoughts:

Distant: Primarily a game of distant disabling. Shots at this range should require highly skilled gunners to be effective but should, with enough reliable harass, be able to threaten to kill a ship.

Long: Long range should be the standard range for any long-range hull-killers (although a good gunner should be able to hit at a "distant" range with practice and good conditions). Guns at this range or longer should be unforgiving of mistakes: emphasis on precision strikes over AoEs, and damage should be compressed into high-value shots rather than spread out over large clips. Reward accuracy while allowing a target to recover during the window of any missed shots. At this range and higher Engineering is fairly easy due to the time gained from a missed shot, and emphasis is on the gunner's skill and the pilot's avoidance abilities.

Medium: Most Distant and Long range weapons begin to be extremely unreliable, due to either arming time or simply turning arc/reload times. A few more disablers appear at this range, but medium range shouldn't have a lot of actual killing power by itself: this allows a sort of "no man's zone" where Long range and Close range ships can play a disabling distance game with each other where each strives to close/increase distance to the ideal combat point. The pilot, gunner, and engineer all shine at this range, as everyone's abilities are needed to gain the advantage.

Close: Close range belongs to brawling and disabling. Weapons here shouldn't be fast armor killers, but they should deal considerable damage to hulls and components. Close range fights should really require good engineers and good piloting ability to avoid crippling disables and keep the hull alive. If a long-range ship lets an enemy get this close, they should have to be a good team to be able to pull out successfully.

Intimate: Intimate range should be brutal: closing in on this range should bring to bear the strongest and fastest ways of killing the enemy ship. These weapons should be mediocre at even close range, but managing to get them into intimate range should reward you with the ability to sow devastation and chaos. I'd like for the closest ranges to not be about damage though: I'd love for this closest of ranges to become the area of powerful disabling effects and constant fire damage, so that being this close to a close-range enemy basically shuts your ship down except in the face of very good teamwork.

-Mad Maverick-:

--- Quote from: Nidh on October 29, 2013, 02:20:11 pm ---Against a sniping team maybe, but against another brawling team I disagree.

Sniping ships have huge disadvantages that can be exploited when within 400 meters, so in that case after the "dance" you don't need to do much else but take advantage of their weakness. Though insta-killing them is still not exactly a fair fight.

That said, I don't think sniping teams should be able to insta-kill either and sniping should just be a support kinda thing. However I don't see how sniping is that much of a problem right now when all you have to do is disable them.

--- End quote ---

cool bro once i have done my "dance" and got within range to take advantage of his  "weakness" and im busy NOT killing him quickly his teammate kills me since i am already banged up from my approach, good call.  again nidh you theories like others only make sense in pick up game against uncoordinated teams.

Nidh:
Sorry if my theories don't include running blindly straight at a target.

Subarco:

--- Quote from: Garou on October 29, 2013, 01:29:39 pm ---
--- Quote from: Subarco on October 29, 2013, 10:34:31 am ---This is a question for people in the competitive scene.

How do you propose to balance it so that brawling with gat/mort becomes viable once again among the upper tier teams, but not have it dominate the pub scene for the lower to mid tier teams?

--- End quote ---
TBH, that is not, nor never was it the discussion I intended to have, and seems to be a question for another thread.

My intention in referring to competitive teams was simply to eliminate variables. If both teams are on equal footing in regards to skill and coordination, it's a lot easier to discuss balance in terms of tactics and loadouts.

--- End quote ---

But player skill is a variable that cannot be ignored in balancing. Balancing has to take into account the experiences of people that either just started the game or are playing it casually. If there is a particular combination/build that dominates the game from the lower to mid-tier teams, then the game will either drive the newer players away or become boring for the older players. There needs to be diversity for the game to be fun. That's why I asked if there is a way for the gat/mort to be competitive for upper-tier of play, but not overshadow the game for the majority of the other players.

Echoez:

--- Quote from: Nidh on October 29, 2013, 01:59:08 pm ---"nautical combat in the air" kind of game.

--- End quote ---

Well here's the thing, real naval combat has nothing to do with what GoI offers, if that was the intention of Muse devs, then do us all a favor and remove the light ships, replace them with real Cruisers and Battleships that can actually take a beating, give us massive maps so we can have some real naval combat like it is supposed to be, from extreme ranges. Give us the titanic guns that real ships have equiped on them, torpedoes (missiles in our case) that can can cause significant harm equiped on Destroyer like ships but are slow traveling.

Point in case, GoI has nothing to compare to a real naval combat situation, not even close. GoI is an arcade game, point and click and fly around, which is why I'm finding it increasingly difficult to like the changes. Sure fine, we'll find a new meta that works, I'm just realy asshurt that the Goldfish is pretty much dead in my eyes now, the Squid is probably not that good either with the massive cut in carronade range now.

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