Main > Gameplay
1.3.3 GUNS AND GUNNER SKILL BALANCE
dragonmere:
--- Quote from: Kriegson on October 29, 2013, 10:37:39 am ---
--- Quote from: Subarco on October 29, 2013, 10:34:31 am ---This is a question for people in the competitive scene.
How do you propose to balance it so that brawling with gat/mort becomes viable once again among the upper tier teams, but not have it dominate the pub scene for the lower to mid tier teams?
--- End quote ---
20 bucks says the response could be condensed into "Doesn't matter because they don't know how to play."
--- End quote ---
How about neither the competitive nor the new/casual players attack the other side?
This thread should be used for discussion on balance and the changes to the guns. Thats it. Not for a debate of "New players are terrible"/"Experienced players are mean". Please don't troll, or try to 'start something'. Tensions are high enough already.
Thanks buddy!
Kriegson:
--- Quote from: dragonmere on October 29, 2013, 10:43:34 am ---
--- Quote from: Kriegson on October 29, 2013, 10:37:39 am ---
--- Quote from: Subarco on October 29, 2013, 10:34:31 am ---This is a question for people in the competitive scene.
How do you propose to balance it so that brawling with gat/mort becomes viable once again among the upper tier teams, but not have it dominate the pub scene for the lower to mid tier teams?
--- End quote ---
20 bucks says the response could be condensed into "Doesn't matter because they don't know how to play."
--- End quote ---
How about neither the competitive nor the new/casual players attack the other side?
This thread should be used for discussion on balance and the changes to the guns. Thats it. Not for a debate of "New players are terrible"/"Experienced players are mean". Please don't troll, or try to 'start something'. Tensions are high enough already.
Thanks buddy!
--- End quote ---
Apologies for being blunt, but frankly it's true. Inexperienced players who pug and do not communicate do not really benefit or detriment from the nerf to any extreme, but the issue is that you cannot divide the playerbase into two, overly simplfied groups of "new, unskilled. Experienced, skilled".
I hope to be able to provide some relevant, OT feedback later today when I get some hands on with the patch.
awkm:
Okay, it's time for me to step in. Before I start, and for the record, we have Dev App testing where all these changes are vetted and discussed. Although it kind of ticks me off to see some of you here with Dev App access who didn't let me know of their opinions ahead of time. That's not incredibly useful to me. However, if you were busy during testing week... well then you were just busy and we can't do anything about that. We're exploring opening up Dev App for longer and with more stable test times each week. Anyway...
The line of thinking "when will gat/mortar become viable again" is the wrong way to think of things. It was a collective decision by the team to put gat/mortar in a place that will force players, you guys, to think twice about using it. Regardless of how much skill it required, because that's all subjective, it was the most common build and the go-to strategy was Pyramidion gat/mortar charge. Tons of people did it and therefore overshadowed more than 2/3 of the weapons in the game. If it was your go-to build then it meant that there was no choice and no choice is no fun. Gat/mortar can still be a successful build after the various changes. Its risk reward model has been changed though. It's more even now, before it was too little risk for huge reward.
The gat/mortar combination represented a lot of problem for balance from the lack of viable builds, ease of use, broken risk reward models, and also the gunner vs engineer argument. Same with builds, if a gun has a default ammo then it's not a choice. This also means you don't need a gunner. Guns should accept multiple ammo types to cater the weapon to multiple situations. E.g. Lesmok on the Gatling for increased range.
Now, as you know, I am always open to feedback. However, if you really want a say in what goes in an actual patch then you should get yourself into Dev App testing. For now, we release patches at the end of every month. Dev App testing happens the week before release. That's when a ton of balance changes happen. Trust me, a lot of things got cut and scaled back. Go to the Steam group and ask Keyvias for keys.
http://steamcommunity.com/groups/GoIEC
Dev App isn't the only way though. Know that I watch the threads I create very closely. So when you say stuff like Muse doesn't care or whatever, you're very wrong. We've been taking feedback and will continue taking it. Therefore, anything that's said now is always taken into account. Things can change since we usually drop a hotfix after the 1st or 2nd week after the patch. Gatling jitter too large? Maybe I can drop it to 2.5 (we tested at 2 on Dev App and it caused a bunch of issues).
So please keep things professional. Go into the game and actually play several rounds with a particular goal in mind like "I'll take my usual gat/mortar combo, how do I need to adjust my strategy given the changes. What is the risk reward like now?" My work is very scientific and that's how you should approach this if you want to give me good feedback.
awkm:
Regarding noobs vs. elite players. I cannot balance the game for either. If I do... that's not balance. I strike at the middle ground. There are builds that will not be used in competitive as there will be builds that won't be used in pub matches. Each group of players are good at finding flaws in the balance.
Competitive players push the mechanics to really weird exceptions and cases like drawn out sniper battles from months ago.
New players fall into the meta to show what choices are overshadowed by the safest, but not always most efficient (DPS, whatever), builds... like Pyramidion Gat/mortar, which got to the point where its also used in competitive (BAD BAD BAD).
So yeah. Competitive vs. noob has no place here. Instead, you should present to me metas that are appearing in each subset of the player base so that they can be observed and perhaps addressed.
Nidh:
I for one am having a blast with the new patch. Had a little duel with Squash and his Galleon, was challenging but I didn't find it OP at all. The game just needs a different way of thinking about engaging now. If you're going against a sniping team, you're going to want a disabler.
Disablers are integral to team compositions, YAY!
No more blindly running around trying to double team ships for a quick kill, heck you could quick kill with a single ship pre-patch. Close range engagement time is longer now and I love it! It really makes you feel like there is a chance for a comeback if you play your cards right.
This patch is awesome. <- my opinion
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