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1.3.3 GUNS AND GUNNER SKILL BALANCE
Kain Phalanx:
I'd already said I'd stop arguing because of the general consensus. I don't think the consensus of a bunch of veterans who clearly want to brag about their skills is as powerful as you do though.
I already gave an example. Lesmok reduces the the direct damage done. RoF or clip size could be adjusted to compensate for some guns, though I don't think many would need it. There are plenty of options and I don't see why it should be up to me to fix it. This strange mindset that acts like I'm the one changing things is weirding me out. Are you trying to rewrite history and ignore the obvious? The flak gun has two barrels and each one fired one shot by design from the beginning aside from the quirky lochnager and heatsink for some reason. Lesmok isn't quirky, it just increases range. Muse is the one who changed things.
I understand and agree that balance is usually more important than realism/game feel, but this is taking a butcher knife to a scalpel problem.
Less damage for more accuracy makes more sense than less damage with the added problem of less accuracy in practical use for more accuracy. Now that I think about it, Heavy Clip used to be that way, but the speed reduction was removed. What's going on there if we're just trying to add more skill requirement instead of having ammo types actually help you?
Crafeksterty:
--- Quote ---The heavy flak was stock and atleast once effective on the Goldfish.
--- End quote ---
Before, the heavy flak went thru armor. Every ship with no heavy gun was innefective
--- Quote ---Less damage for more accuracy makes more sense than less damage with the added problem of less accuracy in practical use for more accuracy.
--- End quote ---
I, dont understand? Lesmok was designed to increase maximum range, and easier to lead with because of bullet speed.
The draw back for armed time weapons is that the arming time will arm from further away.
So if you shoot lesmok at short range with guns such as hades, or heavy flak. It will hit the ship before the projectile is armed. Which results in only the primary damage to inflict. which is less damage. Like i said before, Lesmok is practicaly used on Mortars, mercuries, hades, flamethrower, Lumberjack.
With the heavy flak, if your target is way far from you, lesmok takes the cake. Or else it is very difficult.
The primary thing coming from the heavy flak is its devestating damage. I mean lochnagar one hits every ship just not goldfish and Galleon.
If there is any complaint coming from me regarding the heavy flak, it is that it needs an informative ironsight much like the lumberjack.
Surette:
--- Quote from: Kain Phalanx on January 07, 2014, 07:46:52 pm ---I'd already said I'd stop arguing because of the general consensus. I don't think the consensus of a bunch of veterans who clearly want to brag about their skills is as powerful as you do though.
--- End quote ---
What? I'm terrible on a heavy flak; I just think it makes logical sense to practice gunning to more accurately predict where your shots will go, as that's kind of what gunning is about. How about instead of dismissing opposing viewpoints as "veterans clearly wanting to brag," you take them for what they are: opposing viewpoints.
--- Quote from: Kain Phalanx on January 07, 2014, 07:46:52 pm ---I understand and agree that balance is usually more important than realism/game feel, but this is taking a butcher knife to a scalpel problem.
--- End quote ---
Yes, balance is always more important than realism, which is why more or less everything in the game doesn't make any sense realistically speaking. Sorry, but "it has two barrels" isn't an argument for changing game balance. How much of a chance have you given this change? Most of the people who have been playing consistently in the past year seem to agree that the heavy flak and lesmok ammo are (finally) in a good place. And that's not me saying your ideas aren't worth as much because you've been away from the game—because that's certainly not true—I'm simply saying Muse didn't make these changes lightly. The flak and lesmok ammo have been the center of numerous debates, and I think you're discrediting Muse for updates that they have been extremely careful with simply because it's different from how it used to be, and it's not in line with the fact that the gun has two barrels.
Kain Phalanx:
"Practice gunning." I could, but I can't make other people practice gunning. Neither can I kick bad gunners off of ships, not that I want to. I can be a baby and not fly with low levels like many are doing because the minimum skill bar keeps getting raised. I'm sure that's great for the game and community. All I'm asking is for partial effectiveness at range for everyone instead of all-or-nothing hits for only the skilled.
"Balance is always more important than realism." No, not always. If an fps game rebalanced an underpowered bolt action sniper rifle to fire semi-automatically without changing the model it would reek of incompetence and players would not take the game seriously. This still applies with suspension of disbelief in a fantasy setting. Firing your massive double-barreled cannon twice battleship style is fun. Using a fluff explained experimental ammo like lochnager that limits you to one shot for those crazy enough to want to is great, I'm on board. Lesmok just increases range and accuracy, and it should do so in an intuitive and fun way. Notice I said realism/game feel, because they go hand in hand, and game feel and fun are closely connected. It's also important.
Alistair MacBain:
Im flying alot of sniper Galleons and mostly pack in some lumberjacks and heavy flaks and i keep getting hits. Sure i would get much more when i use a highlvl crew but if noone uses harder to hit guns most people cant get practise with.
Its just not real that only the highlvl can hit with heavy flak or lumberjack. I keep seeing it different. Yeah the highlvl may have a much higher hitrate but its still pub games.
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