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1.3.3 GUNS AND GUNNER SKILL BALANCE
Sammy B. T.:
Doc Jones, you realize that there was dev app testing and many of these people who are too soon to make calls were part of that process. Also there number crunching is important as well as experiments.
Sniping has always reigned supreme. A few brawly teams could beat the snipe if we really had our stuff together.
Gats were originally brought to a better spot by the heavy clip reduction. More recently they had a fantastic fire rate nerf that really balanced them. Why they needed both a range and damage decrease is mind boggling. I would understand the range decrease if they were at least fearsome at short range. They are not however.
-Mad Maverick-:
--- Quote from: Sammy B. T. on October 28, 2013, 11:55:37 pm ---Doc Jones, you realize that there was dev app testing and many of these people who are too soon to make calls were part of that process. Also there number crunching is important as well as experiments.
Sniping has always reigned supreme. A few brawly teams could beat the snipe if we really had our stuff together.
Gats were originally brought to a better spot by the heavy clip reduction. More recently they had a fantastic fire rate nerf that really balanced them. Why they needed both a range and damage decrease is mind boggling. I would understand the range decrease if they were at least fearsome at short range. They are not however.
--- End quote ---
perfectly said...
N-Sunderland:
All right, here we go. Impressions from my playing on day one:
Issue #1: Hades vs. Gat
I did feel that the gatling was a little much, in the past, but this nerf went absurdly far. Meanwhile, the Hades, a well-balanced weapon, got a significant buff. The result?
-Hades has more than triple the range of the gat
-Vanilla Hades does almost twice the DPS of vanilla gat
-Hades has a fire ignition chance to add to its armour damage. This also affects components within its AoE.
-Hades can deal solid balloon damage if the enemy ship tries to drop low. Gat is virtually ineffective against balloon.
-Hades has no spread, so assuming that the guy on it is a good shot, it'll have a much higher hit rate than the gat (unless the gat has heavy, in which case it loses 20 shots)
The two first points are the big issues that have come up in this patch, the others are just for emphasis.
So, why would I ever take a gat? As it stands, the gun is pretty much useless. It has a more damaging, more versatile, longer-range alternative.
Issue #2: Mortar
I just don't see the point in it anymore. Like the gat, the nerf was too much. With 3 degrees (3?!?) of spread and 400m range, you need to get up in their face to have a chance to use it. That'd be fine, but there are some glaring issues: with a lot of longer range weapons getting buffed, it's extremely hard to close 400m in without taking significant damage first. Also, because of the clip size being reduced to 12, the mortar's options are a little more restricted. You can't really take lesmok to extend the range, since that's leave you with 8 shots. That barely gives you enough to kill a Pyra plus a couple of extra shots, but with the increased spread you can't expect consistent direct hits. So it loses out to other explosive options (mainly the light flak and banshee) by quite a lot.
I'll have other thoughts ready once I've played around with the guns some more. So far, I think that the Hades should be brought back to 1.3.2 numbers, and the gat and mortar need to have some of their nerfs scaled back.
-Mad Maverick-:
--- Quote from: N-Sunderland on October 29, 2013, 12:02:43 am ---All right, here we go. Impressions from my playing on day one:
Issue #1: Hades vs. Gat
I did feel that the gatling was a little much, in the past, but this nerf went absurdly far. Meanwhile, the Hades, a well-balanced weapon, got a significant buff. The result?
-Hades has more than triple the range of the gat
-Vanilla Hades does almost twice the DPS of vanilla gat
-Hades has a fire ignition chance to add to its armour damage. This also affects components within its AoE.
-Hades can deal solid balloon damage if the enemy ship tries to drop low. Gat is virtually ineffective against balloon.
-Hades has no spread, so assuming that the guy on it is a good shot, it'll have a much higher hit rate than the gat (unless the gat has heavy, in which case it loses 20 shots)
The two first points are the big issues that have come up in this patch, the others are just for emphasis.
So, why would I ever take a gat? As it stands, the gun is pretty much useless. It has a more damaging, more versatile, longer-range alternative.
Issue #2: Mortar
I just don't see the point in it anymore. Like the gat, the nerf was too much. With 3 degrees (3?!?) of spread and 400m range, you need to get up in their face to have a chance to use it. That'd be fine, but there are some glaring issues: with a lot of longer range weapons getting buffed, it's extremely hard to close 400m in without taking significant damage first. Also, because of the clip size being reduced to 12, the mortar's options are a little more restricted. You can't really take lesmok to extend the range, since that's leave you with 8 shots. That barely gives you enough to kill a Pyra plus a couple of extra shots, but with the increased spread you can't expect consistent direct hits. So it loses out to other explosive options (mainly the light flak and banshee) by quite a lot.
I'll have other thoughts ready once I've played around with the guns some more. So far, I think that the Hades should be brought back to 1.3.2 numbers, and the gat and mortar need to have some of their nerfs scaled back.
--- End quote ---
i agree completely with all of this. but as i have already stated; i believe muse does not want dog fights, rather they want nautical battles in the air. i dont want us to keep arguing for a game that the devs never intended to make.
with that being said if they had simply nerfed the range of the gat and mort i would have been fine with that, but nerfing its damage and clip size respectfully also?! what?! it makes no sense unless as i theorize dog fights are not what the devs intended
Blaackk:
The gat/mortar distance nerf does seem a big excessive given the added strength of the longer distance weapons. Just like others have said, against those with any amount of skill on long distance weapons can really stop any ship coming in on them before they even arrive unless they are equipped equally. I can see the distance nerf making more sense with the carronades, which are shotgun style weapons, and did happen, but not for guns that seemed to be medium ranged. What is a good counter against ships who can simply move backwards firing long distance just as fast as you and avoid any gun that is not long distance? Sneaking up may work, and some maps help that, but not many.
Do ships move backwards just as fast as they move forward? Maybe this can be changed to help balance? Just a thought if it is logical.
The hwacha has become interesting as well with the ship parts being easier to hit on ships. Any thoughts on that so far? It pounds very hard.
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