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1.3.3 GUNS AND GUNNER SKILL BALANCE

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Echoez:

--- Quote from: RearAdmiralZill on October 29, 2013, 03:11:49 pm ---Well since your gun would otherwise be sitting there looking pretty since no other ammo will let you shoot past its maximum range, yea, it's remotely useful. That said, I'm hopeful you know that no one is going to sit at that lesmok range and try to kill something. If so, well you have other issues.

--- End quote ---

I'm pretty sure nobody would sit at Lesmok range poking at the enemy, the fact is though, that all Lesmok will do is poke the enemy and probably just give away your position. Which is why I said, it's pretty useless, opinion though.


--- Quote from: RearAdmiralZill on October 29, 2013, 03:11:49 pm ---Might want to think about taking that breath before posting like I suggested. Do not put words in my postings. Yes, it'll require more thought into your approach. No, it was never a 100% sure thing to just charge in and win previously. Doesn't mean it didn't happen either.

--- End quote ---

All I was implying is that there was no need to complicate it further, I was not trying to put words into your post. If charging straight on a sniper build is netting you kills then what is the enemy doing? If they are not landing their shots, well, I'm pretty sure you deserve to just charge them straight forward, no? It's never been easy and if you charge straight forward you are just gambling on whether the enemy gunners are competent, but that's for an other topic I guess..



--- Quote from: RearAdmiralZill on October 29, 2013, 03:11:49 pm ---Beyond that, I have nothing good to say about your post so I'll just leave it. It does nothing to help anybody except let you vent.

--- End quote ---

After what feels like the millionth nerf to brawling guns and especially after an update that was one of the most balanced to have in the game with all guns working properly, I honestly think I have every right to be frustrated by the changes, that said, I honestly don't mind it over all, I just don't like the direction it's headed and deem the changes unecessary at best, but again you could argue it's just opinion, you would be right.


--- Quote from: RearAdmiralZill on October 29, 2013, 03:11:49 pm ---I honestly doubt brawling is dead, and only different.

--- End quote ---

It's not, it's just not nearly as rewarding as it was, definately needs tweaks on guns like the Gatling and the Carronades that got their ranges cut and got nothing in return, their damage was lowered as well for apparently no reason, I don't see why.

Fine, range was a problem I guess for you (as in the people that were butthurt about the carronades/gat)? Where's the power-up that they get for being even more restricted in range than they were in 1.3.1? Where is my old 4 second reload on the Heavy Carronade? Why cut the damage of the Light carronade? Why did the Gat get no compesations for the damage and range cut other than larger clip that takes forever to unload?

Sammy B. T.:

--- Quote from: Mr. Ace Rimmer on October 29, 2013, 04:08:10 pm ---Gat Mortar/Carronade Mortar (Brawling) has now been made a fine art form of high risk, high reward. *If* you can get close enough to your opponents *and* have the skill to out fly them, you will reap the rewards.

--- End quote ---

The thing is with the new DPS changes to the Gatling (its direct damage went down 25% with a clip increase of 20%) as well as the obliteration of the mortar (Twice the jitter, third the range, half the rotation speed, and losing 25% of the clip) you don't reap the rewards.

I think what people are not understanding is that these were not just range changes. Those would have been an awesome way to bring in specialization of the high reward risk we continue to mention. Now you get close and I'll need a moment to do some math but it isn't looking any better than other piercing explosive combos that work at range.

If you want high reward risk then the two have to be proportional. The reward is just not there.

Thomas:
I played a few matches and I liked most of the changes so far. The gat/mortar was used just a crazy amount more than other guns pre-patch. They're still very viable, you just have to work at it a little harder. Basically it just takes more skill and teamwork. If you can manage that, you can still absolutely shred other ships.

I have noticed a lot more players using the artemis and field gun however. Some players are saying it was buffed too much, but reading the patch notes, the 'buffs' seem relatively minor. It just makes it slightly easier to hit targets at great ranges; although in all honesty, these guns have always been pretty easy to hit targets with.

While the sheer amount of disables is frustrating, I haven't seen anything overwhelming or unbeatable.


Personally I'd recommend just dealing with the changes for a week or so, get used to it, and most importantly: try to adapt. Things have -just- changed, you gotta give it some time to sink in. People are still experimenting and trying to find what works in what situations, just like the last patches. Once things settle a bit and players have a better of what works well where, when, and why; we can really start discussing balance. Right now it's just first impressions.

NoWuffo:

--- Quote from: HamsterIV on October 29, 2013, 01:26:17 pm ---I am just glad the Artemis wasn't touched.

--- End quote ---

Shut up! SHUT UP!! Don't draw attention to this fact, I don't want it nerfed next go-around!!

I think the patch has been up for long enough to have pretty solid first impressions. There will be continuous updates and shifts in favors over the following weeks. The point is, there are a lot of people unhappy with the severity of this patch. I hope a hotfix comes out soon to give a little bit of power back to the gat/mortar (either range or damage, not both) since I think it was nerfed too hard. I like the sniping buffs, I want to see more of the Hades, and I like attempt at making more viable gun combos.

I think I'll be trading in my pyra for my good ol' Junker, or my mobula, or hell maybe the new Spire. It saddens me though that yet another patch roles around and the ship taking the most heat is the brawler Pyra. Good night, RamRod.

dragonmere:
I have some questions, and I'm really curious for serious answers. I can't give input on weapon balance if I don't understand what balanced means. I'd really like to clear up any misunderstandings so I can take a fresh look at this patch.

How are we supposed to be playing the game?
The argument is that gat/mortar was too powerful, and too quick. Exactly how long is a kill supposed to take? How long is an engagement supposed to last? How long is a match supposed to last?

The argument is that the gat/mortar was over used. What is the desired distribution of weapon usage? What about ship usage? How often am I supposed to switch my weapon loadouts?

Have I been playing the game the wrong way for the last six months?
I've been attempting to find the best, most efficient weapon combinations for each ship to get the quickest and most reliable kill. I look at what the most accurate weapons are at reasonable ranges, and what setups maximize the damage.

I've then been practicing those loadouts to make them as efficient as possible. Timing the gat fire so that exactly as the final bullet takes down the hull, the clip is getting reloaded. When that gat bullet connects with the armor, the majority of the mortar clip is already in the air.

Am I playing this game wrong? What am I supposed to be getting better at, if not quick, reliable kills?

What is the perfect balance we're aiming for?
Matches where no matter what combination of ships, weapons, and crew load outs, the matches always last 40 minutes, and always end 4-5?

We're supposedly balancing for new players to feel comfortable, and this is possibly at the expense of the highly competitive scene. What are new players supposed to aspire towards? What do they do when they are no longer new? Competitive matches that are admittedly not the focus of balance?

Where do I go from here?
Am I just supposed to shut up, learn and practice a 'new meta', which will then be labeled unbalanced, and subsequently nerfed? Thats how it's been the entire time I've been playing.

Or am I supposed to start picking guns and ships completely at random and having a silly, 'balanced' time? That's not what I had in mind.

It's hard for me to be objective about weapon balance if the game I'm attempting to play is vastly different from what developers intended.

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