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Please Make Gunners Useful

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Nidh:
Great, so we know WHY 2 gunners aren't viable. Now how do you MAKE 2 gunners viable, while still keeping engineers not "watered down."

Letonator:

--- Quote from: RearAdmiralZill on October 10, 2013, 03:28:17 pm ---Too watered, thus you get an engineer with a buff hammer claiming to rule the world, lol.

The reason two engies are required is because I don't think there are enough guns on any one boat to warrant the need for 6 ammo types (or a build that would). You get diminishing returns at that point and the repair of a second engie is undoubtedly better than any potential damage a second gunner could add.

--- End quote ---

That's a very good point.

In my personal opinion as someone who's reviewed games as his day job, I'd say the devs need to find a method to balance the math of having two gunners and having two engies with equal diminishing returns compared to each other, if each class played their strengths at equal skill levels. I know that you can't just say that, come up with equations, and implement. It involves player ability, who knows their tools and abilities best, but I think that's what the game should be vs who brought more engineers.

At that point, if we find balance in that singular scenario, every other problem that stems from people claiming gunners suck or engineers are overpowered will instantly solve themselves. Again this is 100% my opinion as a game reviewer and no way based in game experience at this point, but having viewed other game development cycles, it feels like the right direction to move towards.

shadowsteel:
Wow. Just got ninja'd by 7 posts... well here goes nothing.

I don't think gunners are useless right now. They provide diversity to the weapons on your ship. They help change variables in battle that were previously taking you down.

That being said, there is a certain imbalance, but I think it's actually the engineer that is the problem.

The way the tools are set up is that any class (gunner, engi, pilot) can perform any role (gunning, repairing, flying) with the right tools. The number of tools your class allows, increases your performance at that role (which makes the Spyglass the odd one out and why I think there should be a Gneral tool slot...).

But what it comes down to is, engis and gunners take the Spyglass for the Pilot tool, and most gunners take Pipe Wrench for repair because they're not going to be able to use anything else.

The Engineer still has that versatility of having all of the ammo types be useful for whatever guns they're ship has.

Cid Ferringer:
Because balloon and hull needs to be kept in best condition at all times.. It's hard to do without two engineers..

The problem is not so much that gunners aren't at all useful..
It's that they can be skipped without dire consequences, and some captains will, which means there won't be as much room for gunners compared to engineers..

Usually one type of ammo is enough for the job.
While you can't say the same about the engineering tools.

RearAdmiralZill:

--- Quote ---Usually one type of ammo is enough for the job.
While you can't say the same about the engineering tools.
--- End quote ---

Just like how I said 6 ammo gives diminishing returns, 9 tools can as well, thanks to cooldowns.

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