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Typhon, Heavy Flak Discussion.
QKO:
I am going to join an earlier poster in saying that my crews with charged rounds have had no issue hitting at 2000+ range. Some crews can even do this while I'm circling around with the Galleon, so the issue definitely isn't in hitting the flak cannon. And with charged rounds, it still does a lot of damage at those ranges. I'd much rather focus on getting a heavy gun that accompanies the flak in that it takes care of armor. That way we can leave the fieldgun as it is for the Spire and outfit the Galleon with some proper ranged weaponry.
The arming time of 1 second is ridiculous however, it means that together with the mortar with arming time of 0.8 seconds, I have a huge blind spot on my Galleon that I can't even turn away when they get close enough(as they just bounce me back by hitting my balloon). This again could be fixed by having a heavy piercing weapon so that the small mount can be used for shotguns or other self defense weaponry.
Captain Smollett:
Charged Flak rounds explode in mid air after just over 1km, which can only be overcome with lesmok ammunition (by increasing speed so that they travel farther within their limited lifespan).
QKO:
Aha, I just saw the tiling thing. The Mortar's aiming system is off. Well, easy to fix this issue with flak, just increase the detonation range(to 2000m). If they want a different firing arc they can still use Lesmok.
Maybe it's also an idea to revert back to the previous lesmok and try to figure out what makes the fieldguns as strong as they are. From what I've seen is that it's very hard to get close to ships when they employ fieldguns. Aside from a bumrush, there aren't many options due to flares and open distance.
The other guns have an effective range that is less than 1000 meters giving fieldguns a very distinct advantage. Being that the fieldguns are sniper rifles firing relatively normal bullets, a range of 3000 is excessive to begin with. Maybe impose an effective range of 1000 and have damage drop off after that rather than changing the amount of shots available.
Secondly, pilots need ways to get close against ranged fighters, even in organized fights. Maybe it's an idea to put a smoke gun in the game that can facilitate in creating smoke screens for ships to fly behind?
RearAdmiralZill:
--- Quote ---The arming time of 1 second is ridiculous however, it means that together with the mortar with arming time of 0.8 seconds, I have a huge blind spot on my Galleon that I can't even turn away when they get close enough(as they just bounce me back by hitting my balloon). This again could be fixed by having a heavy piercing weapon so that the small mount can be used for shotguns or other self defense weaponry.
--- End quote ---
There is a very good reason for that arming time, and that is so short range brawlers can get in that bubble and survive. You make the choice to have great long range guns, at the cost of the very weak damage you'll do within that arming.
Adding any kind of full-on heavy piercing weapon will just result in galleons with it and heavy flak for broadsides. I honestly don't think we ever need to see a heavy piercing gun. Flechette does decently, and maybe a heavy fire weapon will come around which is also good vs hull armor. Beyond that though, there is a reason the port side of a galleon has that light mount.
--- Quote ---Maybe it's also an idea to revert back to the previous lesmok and try to figure out what makes the fieldguns as strong as they are. From what I've seen is that it's very hard to get close to ships when they employ fieldguns. Aside from a bumrush, there aren't many options due to flares and open distance.
The other guns have an effective range that is less than 1000 meters giving fieldguns a very distinct advantage. Being that the fieldguns are sniper rifles firing relatively normal bullets, a range of 3000 is excessive to begin with. Maybe impose an effective range of 1000 and have damage drop off after that rather than changing the amount of shots available.
--- End quote ---
We already know what made mercs strong, and that was the accuracy at max ranges far beyond that of any other gun. This lead to people using that to chip away at boats until they just died from the dps. Now you have to really dial in the arcs of your mercs, and the drop at longer ranges is enough to make accurate shooting much harder, yet someone will always get hurt/die if they charge into a long range gun line straight on. That just makes sense else long range wouldn't be viable to use at all.
I always look at gun's effective range vs its max range. If your max is 3km but you cant hit anything accurately till 1.5km, then go with that 1.5km. With the merc changes, their effective range surely went down, both for just hitting the hull for dps, followed by even lower ranges for precise component disables.
QKO:
--- Quote from: RearAdmiralZill on August 16, 2013, 10:21:07 am ---[There is a very good reason for that arming time, and that is so short range brawlers can get in that bubble and survive. You make the choice to have great long range guns, at the cost of the very weak damage you'll do within that arming.
--- End quote ---
Great long range? 1000m isn't that long. And with a full second you already cover something like 500m before reaching arming time. For a gun that has a very specific purpose and doesn't do much damage when the hull is up, 1 second is just too long.
--- Quote ---Adding any kind of full-on heavy piercing weapon will just result in galleons with it and heavy flak for broadsides. I honestly don't think we ever need to see a heavy piercing gun. Flechette does decently, and maybe a heavy fire weapon will come around which is also good vs hull armor. Beyond that though, there is a reason the port side of a galleon has that light mount.
--- End quote ---
I do not see how this is a problem, it would turn the Galleon into a little bit less of a joke in 2v2 fights. Not only Galleons, but spires and goldfishes have use for a gun like this. Next to fire, it's the only type not represented by heavy weaponry.
--- Quote ---We already know what made mercs strong, and that was the accuracy at max ranges far beyond that of any other gun. This lead to people using that to chip away at boats until they just died from the dps. Now you have to really dial in the arcs of your mercs, and the drop at longer ranges is enough to make accurate shooting much harder, yet someone will always get hurt/die if they charge into a long range gun line straight on. That just makes sense else long range wouldn't be viable to use at all.
I always look at gun's effective range vs its max range. If your max is 3km but you cant hit anything accurately till 1.5km, then go with that 1.5km. With the merc changes, their effective range surely went down, both for just hitting the hull for dps, followed by even lower ranges for precise component disables.
--- End quote ---
You missed the point. Think about this for a second: How would they chip away at a ship they cannot see? You have to be really careful with how you think about balance, there's only a few games who'm have gotten it well and nearly all of them do the least things with the damage of their playable entities. If you want, you could pull up the change list between Guilty Gear XX Accent Core and Guilty Gear XX Accent Core +R. The latter is a rebalance, but rather than tuning damage alone, they changed the properties of some moves to allow characters to deal better with disadvantageous situations. Being outranged is such a disadvantageous situation and dealing with it without touching the weapons that seem overpowered may balance everything a lot better than just damage tuning or projectile tuning.
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