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Typhon, Heavy Flak Discussion.

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Echoez:

--- Quote from: Moriarty on August 14, 2013, 08:34:41 am ---Fair call, cant agree with the spire thing tho.

Merc/flak spires are spires at their best (easily the dominant force in the baptism by spire) ... that makes 2 out of 3 since your counting.

As for the goldfish well lets be honest there are lots of problems with the goldfish, it's been a support ship for a few versions now, relegated to carrying a manticore since the carronade changes.

so 2 out of 3 ships find a use for it. That's not bad.

--- End quote ---

I meant that a FlakSpire isn't realy the 'go to' thing in competitive and my 1 out of 3 ships assumption was for a competitive enviroment only. In which case, the Heavy Flak only appears on the Paddling's Galleon.

In Pub games FlakSpire is a bit safer to use since people don't realy care a lot ( I know I don't, I love the ship ), but since Lesmok cripples the Heavy Flak considerably now, it's not realy the most effective thing, even more so on a competitive setting. FlakSpires weren't that popular in Pubs either, so far I haven't seen many people using them bar me, Smollett, Keyvias and 2-3 other guys, it's a very high risk ship to use.

As for the fire thing it was just an idea, I think it would be worth testing in the App and see how it would impact the game in general.

Zenark:
You people keep saying that these long range shots are impossible without lesmok o.0 how have I been getting kills with it then? (well, my gunner) I know he's not using Lesmok because he shoots twice.

I'm thinking I might be using this weapon in closer ranges than everyone else is. I can't tell how far the enemy is, but it takes a second or two for the round to hit, and it's enough to kill. What is the minimum and max range with charged rounds?

Echoez:
Lesmok gave the gun some more true range, I can get kills too with a competend gunner, but that doesn't mean it isn't doubly hard to do so now.

I still insist that since Lesmok is very good on so many things and apparently needed a change, that this gun gets some treatment, even if it is just a faster vanilla projectile speed.

awkm:
I think there's some major confusion here or issue with the particular language everyone is using.  Therefore, it makes it hard for me to understand what it is that you are complaining about.  Smollet also had some confusion some it might be how the Ducks and other high level talk about gun stats.  What this leads me to believe is that you are all speculating again.

If you really want change to happen, test before you talk.  Speculation does not help me, in fact in can confuse me and lead me to make stupid changes.  And if you have tested before you spoke, thank you.

Old Lesmok:
+60% projectile speed, -20% clip size, +30% projectile lift, -40% gun rotation speed

New Lesmok:
+80% projectile speed, -30% clip size, +30% projectile lift, -20% gun rotation speed

Heavy Flak without Lesmok:
- Range: 1008m
- Arming Time: 1s (remains the same even with ammo)
- Arming Range: 240m
- Clip size: 2
- Rotation speed and projectile lift is rather obvious

Heavy Flak with old Lesmok:
- Range: 1600m
- Arming Range: 384m
- Clip size: 2

Heavy Flak with new Lesmok:
- Range: 1800m
- Arming Range: 432m
- Clip size: 1

Pros of New Lesmok:
- Even greater range (+200m compared to old Lesmok)
- Less gun rotation nerf (half from old Lesmok!!)

Cons of New Lesmok:
- Ammo is dropped to 1 (compared to rounded to 2 with -20% clip size, therefore no change)
- Greater arming range (due to increase projectile speed, Arming Range = Arming Time * Projectile Speed)

SO, in my mind the only really big nerf is that guns with clip size 2 really get it.  Ammo is dropped to 1.  Increasing Heavy Flak's ammo is one solution, what its DPS should be afterwards is still TBD.  Increasing its Shell Life is an easy possibility, therefore increasing the gun's effective range without affecting drop.  It'll just take more skill to get shots on things further away, it's one helluva drop.

Lesmok will need to change in some ways to account for abuses on other weapons.  The laser-like surgery it affords to guns like mortars is nice but it's too easy to use right now.  It has solidified itself as the default ammo for that gun.  I don't like it.  Some additional thought will need to be put into Lesmok or even to the Mortar itself now that reliance on Light Flak has been lowered.

Rainer Zu Fall:
This is just some thinking about what might be a problem and how to solve it regarding effect to cause and balance. Logical continuity not guaranteed (as well as specific terms, tried to describe them). No thoughts have been made about damage changes, since I don't know the specific numbers.


About the heavy flak:
Increasing shell life might be an easy solution to get it even more into it's niche, however it already has quite a high range and doesn't need to become a second merc, the way I see it.
I still think that adding one more round to it's clip would be the way to go by boosting as well the gun with lesmok but also with burst and other ammo types, making them worth using gain in combination with the flak too as well as decreasing the speed the projectile flys with, e.g. lochnagar or others.

About the mortar:
Increasing it's stability towards lateral and vertical movement, so shots aren't affected that much by movement anymore, would prevent overexcessive use of lesmok and force the players to use other ammo types to gain advantages. Decreasing it's range would make lesmok still necessary with particular kinds of playing without pushing it too far in direction of being OP with other rounds if changes stated before would be made.

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