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Typhon, Heavy Flak Discussion.

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RearAdmiralZill:
@QKO, I honestly can say I have no idea what you are wanting out of your posts. Call me thick, but all it sounds like is that you want to use new mechanics instead of nerfing gun damage, which just leads to more variables that can break other things. The end goal is to get these guns performing the roles that we know they do in a balanced way that makes it so it's not the only thing to ever take.

The sooner you stop using absolutes in this game, the better. Every pilot won't confirm that if an enemy ship gets close to a galleon, that it will die, because i prove that wrong on a daily basis.

While a smoke gun wouldn't be a bad concept, it certainly wont get you closer to anything. How is it going to move forward? What is stopping me from seeing a giant artificial cloud, and immediately shooting at it?

So let's focus on what is happening here, and that is potential Heavy Flak changes, because it's apparent that it was using lesmok as a crutch to make itself useful, which is flawed.

Spud Nick:
I think we can all agree that the flak needs more range in order for it to preform it's role as a long range weapon. If lesmok stays the same than I think that we can all agree on the second point witch is to give the flak more ammo.

Crafeksterty:
No, i believe that the flak is very good in what it is doing now.  A quicker shot maybe, but other than than i think it is viable as it is, even with the new lesmok changes. It is a killer, and with a good lochnar shot, any ship is ded

QKO:

--- Quote from: RearAdmiralZill on August 17, 2013, 10:42:20 am ---@QKO, I honestly can say I have no idea what you are wanting out of your posts. Call me thick, but all it sounds like is that you want to use new mechanics instead of nerfing gun damage, which just leads to more variables that can break other things. The end goal is to get these guns performing the roles that we know they do in a balanced way that makes it so it's not the only thing to ever take.

--- End quote ---
Yes, I'm pushing for mechanics that enable players to force a close range fight. And preferably I want it in a way that those that want to play a ranged ship can still defend against it. I also want to make sure that ranged ships keep doing their proper damage rather than getting nerfed into oblivion in hopes to achieve the best balance with the fewest mechanics. I'm saying that the current set cannot be balanced properly and is going to favor brawlers as it is now. And when it favors brawlers, you can just as well remove anything except for chaingun and mortar, because the rest is just pointless.


--- Quote ---The sooner you stop using absolutes in this game, the better. Every pilot won't confirm that if an enemy ship gets close to a galleon, that it will die, because i prove that wrong on a daily basis.

--- End quote ---
I just won a 2v2 with my team being spires and the opposing team being pyramidions. One of my crew took a picture of that. The game that followed was dual spire against two galleons, which we also won. When I'm talking in here, I expect players to be competent; and when a competent crew mans a ship that gets into the galleon's dead zone, the galleon is dead.

--- Quote ---While a smoke gun wouldn't be a bad concept, it certainly wont get you closer to anything. How is it going to move forward? What is stopping me from seeing a giant artificial cloud, and immediately shooting at it?
--- End quote ---
You shoot the smoke ahead of you, two clouds in different directions. You then use either of those clouds for cover and you repeat the process. Then when you're finally close enough, you come out of the cloud and attack your target. This balances out because said target can use a flare gun to spot inside those clouds, but if he guesses badly, you've already moved up a bit on him. Now, you're not making tiny clouds here, if you make them to small, of course they know where you are, hence you need to make them big enough so the ship can avoid being shot at even inside the clouds.

--- Quote ---So let's focus on what is happening here, and that is potential Heavy Flak changes, because it's apparent that it was using lesmok as a crutch to make itself useful, which is flawed.
--- End quote ---
Exactly, but it's flawed because the guns are balanced around the currently existing mechanics and around the metagame we would like to see. This gives us a very narrow area to balance in and within that area the gun can be correctly balanced to the preferred meta. That is also the point of my posts, it's not that these guns ever were really strong, it's just that players are unable to deal with ranged fighters because they lack the tools to do so. Give them these tools and the balance of ranged weapons will fall into place quite handsomely.

awkm:
More ways are being added to allow ships to approach long range ships.  I've added additional cloud cover and reduced the effectiveness and easy of use of the Field Gun.  They're small steps but I think are important ones.  Hyper long range (1500m or more) engagements (with killing at those ranges) doesn't really differentiate GoIO from other shooters.  This game really shines at close to mid range combat when you see ships moving tactically, broadsiding, etc...  Long range is still pretty interesting though but there are fewer options for those engagements to take place (Heavy Flak after the coming hot patch).  In general, yes I want to bring combat closer.

The way guns behave (damage, damage types, etc...) will need to be changed in order to facilitate the move in this direction.  Things aren't going to change drastically, that's not what I want either.  Gentle nudges and realignments.  Some potential changes and effects are regrettably missed, but sometimes it reveals other issues (like Lesmok + Heavy Flak crutch).  Also, we'll need to implements new mechanics as well to ensure that these engagement ranges are possible and can be pulled off not easily but with medium amount of effort.  A cloud creation skill is in the works, we have the hooks for it so it just needs some tweaking (Tar Barrel).  Other ideas include the addition of impulse force (like when you hit a mine you get pushed a little) to weapons or specialize it to a single weapon so that you can deny angles to some extent.  This will also be important as we reexamine CP maps and how they do and don't work for us.

Some ideas I've mentioned are very experimental so take what I've said with a grain of salt.  This is just to give everyone an idea of where the game is going and what things we're working on to improve it.

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