Author Topic: Lesmok 1.3.1  (Read 59730 times)

Offline Echoez

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Re: Lesmok 1.3.1
« Reply #60 on: August 14, 2013, 02:30:45 pm »
This would change the amount of ammo in a Lumberjack too though - I don't think this gun needs a nerf.

I did the math, even 50% would reduce the LJ's ammo to 3.5, which then rounds up to the current 4 with Lesmok, doesn't affect it.

The lumber has 6 shots base, so you'd get three.

It has 6 shots base?.. I remembered it had 7. My bad then.

Offline Rainer Zu Fall

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Re: Lesmok 1.3.1
« Reply #61 on: August 14, 2013, 02:40:47 pm »
Decreasing the mortar's range would make lesmok still necessary with particular kinds of playing, without pushing it too far in direction of being OP when using other rounds. The usage of other rounds though would be induced. Don't know if this is enough to nerf it a bit, but might be worth thinking about it. Maybe a little change might be necessary besides this one.
You may think about decreasing the damage a little bit, but only a little bit though. This would lead to more usage of burst, charged or lochnagar and balancing it with the light flak in terms of killing power (as well as other guns).

Offline Echoez

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Re: Lesmok 1.3.1
« Reply #62 on: August 14, 2013, 02:48:02 pm »
My thought is that the Mortar already benefits greatly from other ammo types, hence why I believe the problem stands with Lesmok and not the gun itself.

Greased rounds on the Mortar are an amazing way to dispose of everything lightling fast while burst is very good to spread out damage to components while getting some extra shots. Heck, even Incediary is pretty annoyingif used correctly. Of course I'm talking about the game in general and less about the competitive scene, because honestly, no matter what, unless you nerf Lesmok or the gun itself an awful lot, Lesmok will still be used on it for the added range and accuracy it provides.

For a suggestion:
What if Lesmok had a firing rate decrease instead of further nerfing the clip size? Something like Charged, around 15-20% firing rate penalty. That would decrease the Mortar's DPS from far away and allow ships more reaction time while still providing a good range boost, it wouldn't affect guns like the Heavy Flak Lumberjack and Mercury a lot.

Offline Queso

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Re: Lesmok 1.3.1
« Reply #63 on: August 14, 2013, 03:01:37 pm »
As someone who is well established as being insane, I'd say bump up both clip size of the flaks and the hull health of ships. That way you have more need to use heavy hitters when the armor is down. Of course I'm fairly often going to say more hull health when it comes to balance.

Offline Rainer Zu Fall

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Re: Lesmok 1.3.1
« Reply #64 on: August 14, 2013, 03:07:12 pm »
Our problem with that gun is that it's used too much, right? It's used too much because it works better than any other piercing/explosive combo at the moment.
Keeping that in mind, let's compare: The light flak deals medium damage on a high accuracy and quite medium range. The mortar currently can hit on the same range with some mediocre-high accuracy, but deals much more damage.

One could say "just decrease the damage and it's fine". Yeah, you might think so, but decreasing damage will still leave us with a gun that has a range capacity from pretty close to quite medium and mediocre-high accuracy. That means we have a flak we need to arc to hit. This would provide the only difference, making the flak the way to go since it would be easier to hit.
Instead we should think about what to use the mortar for, what to specialize it in. And this would be close quarter combat, I think. Take the flak if you want to stay a bit more on range, like a mobula with it's weak hull but more guns aiming at one target. Take the mortar if you want to get close and cuddly, like on a pyramidion where you can use it's strenght - ramming.
Thinking about that we need to change something, so the mortar would be used mainly in CQC. I think about decreasing range, since you can't change it to spread it's shots more. But since we don't want the mortar to only hit when already cuddling with the enemy, I say decrease it a bit and decrease the damage as well a tiny bit, to compensate for that.

Those are my thoughts on it.


@Queso:
First I notice is that this takes many changes on different objects.
But I'm with you about bumping up the heavy flak's clip size by one. I don't think the clip sizes (on the light flak not at all) should be increased over 9000, because that would lead to piercing/explosive combo being OP again, but a little bit on the heavy might solve that problem too.

More hull health is something I don't want to see. It's already quite good the way it is - never touch a running system!
« Last Edit: August 14, 2013, 03:10:49 pm by RainerZuFall »

Offline Captain Smollett

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Re: Lesmok 1.3.1
« Reply #65 on: August 14, 2013, 03:18:49 pm »
Rainer, I agree with you that the light mortar has a bit too much range now.

My opinion though is it's not the gun's problem, but a problem with lesmok.  If lesmok didn't give such a range boost, then mortar would have to be a close cuddly type of weapon.

Offline Rainer Zu Fall

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Re: Lesmok 1.3.1
« Reply #66 on: August 14, 2013, 03:24:15 pm »
I think it's a gun you want the other way round than the heavy flak: Use lesmok to get closer and then use burst/charged/lochnagar to get them where it hurts.
But maybe that's just how I see it. Anyone else having ideas about that?

Offline RearAdmiralZill

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Re: Lesmok 1.3.1
« Reply #67 on: August 14, 2013, 04:46:00 pm »
I still think it has to do with the lack of any spread on the mortar.

Offline Calico Jack

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Re: Lesmok 1.3.1
« Reply #68 on: August 14, 2013, 05:03:17 pm »
tbh long range mortar shots have the potential to deal damage, but you can avoid them much more easily than a flak shot due to the slower speed so even with the new range unless the gunner gets a tight vector, it's more of a hazard than a threat.

Personally I feel the reason for the rise of the mortar is boredom - whoever gets stationed on the flak is in for long periods of waiting followed by emptying 1 clip then reloading and waiting some more while the gat gunner gnaws away at the next target.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2013, 05:04:57 pm by Calico Jack »

Offline Queso

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Re: Lesmok 1.3.1
« Reply #69 on: August 14, 2013, 05:30:07 pm »
never touch a running system!
A system that works is a far cry from a perfect system.

A 3rd heavy flak shot would probably be a good boost the gun needed and keep it from requiring 2 shot Lesmok to be useful.

Offline James T. Kirk

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Re: Lesmok 1.3.1
« Reply #70 on: August 14, 2013, 05:59:50 pm »
I just want to bring up that, due to the design and reload animation, the Heavy Flak would look kind of silly fireing three shots as default.

Fireing one or three shots due to different ammo makes sense, but a double-barrel weapon fireing three shots with no special ammo seems.... Odd.
Take that as you will.

Offline awkm

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Re: Lesmok 1.3.1
« Reply #71 on: August 14, 2013, 06:38:50 pm »
I just want to bring up that, due to the design and reload animation, the Heavy Flak would look kind of silly fireing three shots as default.

This is actually a very good point.  Can't go on and piss off the art team!  They'll hang me!

Offline Echoez

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Re: Lesmok 1.3.1
« Reply #72 on: August 14, 2013, 06:42:29 pm »
I just want to bring up that, due to the design and reload animation, the Heavy Flak would look kind of silly fireing three shots as default.

This is actually a very good point.  Can't go on and piss off the art team!  They'll hang me!

Tell them to add a 3rd barrel to the heavy Flak, problem solved :P

Offline Calico Jack

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Re: Lesmok 1.3.1
« Reply #73 on: August 14, 2013, 08:04:14 pm »
I just want to bring up that, due to the design and reload animation, the Heavy Flak would look kind of silly fireing three shots as default.

This is actually a very good point.  Can't go on and piss off the art team!  They'll hang me!

Tell them to add a 3rd barrel to the heavy Flak, problem solved :P

a heavy gatflak then?

Offline N-Sunderland

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Re: Lesmok 1.3.1
« Reply #74 on: August 14, 2013, 08:07:37 pm »
Personally I feel the reason for the rise of the mortar is boredom - whoever gets stationed on the flak is in for long periods of waiting followed by emptying 1 clip then reloading and waiting some more while the gat gunner gnaws away at the next target.

What? No. Absolutely not. The mortar replaced the flak as the go-to finishing gun because of the changes to heavy clip in 1.3, which left the flak unable to finish the Pyramidion or Galleon quickly enough.