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Some interesting math about the Mercury Field Gun.
RearAdmiralZill:
Yea I just messed my argument all up, but meh.
--- Quote ---Zill you probably don't recall the modifier being .1 because it used to be higher however it's been dialed down bit by bit ever since I started playing.
--- End quote ---
Yea I never keep real close track with the numbers. I always go off "feel" in-game, so when people start throwing numbers around I tend to shake my head and hope my point gets across. I let awkm deal with the numbers, and just make sure it has the "feel" I want in-game.
--- Quote ----Shatter damage modifier to permahull is now 0 (from 0.1)
-Manticore Heavy Hwacha now does 27 explosive damage per shot (from 25)
-Mercury Field gun now deals 85 piercing damage (from 75) and 170 shatter damage (from 300)
--- End quote ---
What's the point of lowering the modifier if you want to lower its shatter anyway? It needs to still do perma hull damage to be a useful gun.
N-Sunderland:
The merc doesn't need to do any permahull damage to be useful. It's an excellent long-range armour stripper and disabler.
Echoez:
--- Quote from: Captain Smollett on July 29, 2013, 12:08:05 pm ---Taking away shatter's ability to damage the hull would definitely dissuade people from sitting at opposite ends of the map and missing at each other for an hour while still retaining the current primary functions of the mercury.
--- End quote ---
That is one of my main concerns and what I realy want to be honest.
--- Quote from: RearAdmiralZill on July 29, 2013, 12:28:25 pm ---What's the point of lowering the modifier if you want to lower its shatter anyway? It needs to still do perma hull damage to be a useful gun.
--- End quote ---
Basically it just requires the gunner to hit both shots for a disable on a heavy gun. That is not a necessary change though. I disagree completely that this gun should still be a threat to permahull to be useful. It is immensely useful even if you are using one just because of the disabling power it has plus it's a good armor softener.
Also lowering the shatter damage it does won't change anything with its damage to permahull if shatter does no damage to it anyway. Anyway, what I realy want is the permahull damage this gun does to be gone, it has no place doing that damage to permahull as a piercing weapon and at that range. Smollett explained it for me anyway.
And I've already stated the numbers of how much damage other guns with shatter lose per clip, I can assure you for the carronades at least that this damage is minimal, hence won't hurt them at all. The Artemis doesn't lose out on much either and I already proposed a slight buff to the Hwacha's missiles explosive damage to compesate for the loss of shatter on perma by 3 points which is eventually 4.2 on perma and 0.3 on armor, the original loss of damage on perma from the 45 shatter it deals is 4.5, so by buffing its explosive by 3, you retain most of that while very slightly buffing its armor damage, but realy, just by 5 damage per clip.
--- Quote from: N-Sunderland on July 29, 2013, 12:43:00 pm ---The merc doesn't need to do any permahull damage to be useful. It's an excellent long-range armour stripper and disabler.
--- End quote ---
And since Sunderland made me a favor and posted this while I was writing, there you go as well.
awkm:
I agree with "feel" as well. I want the game to played with 80% feel 20% numbers.
The field gun has not changed for many months. The fact that complaint around this gun does not arise until major tournaments draws me to the conclusion that it requires highly coordinated teams and skilled gunners to pull off the strategies. If this happens during competitive play and it does require such coordination, I don't think there is a huge problem. So long as that this does not happen in public matches, then I think we're okay.
This is not to say that there aren't other issues like map design and skills that may mitigate line of sight problems. These will slowly be worked into the game as we move along.
Otherwise, the field gun will not see any further changes until more piercing and shatter options are made available to lighten the field gun's burden and usage characteristics.
And for the record, the Field Gun does not penetrate. Ever. We've seen reports this past weekend and we don't know what to say until we can get reliable reproduction cases for the possible bug. Everything looks dandy on our end, though.
Captain Smollett:
awkm thanks for the reply. I have a deep suspicion that Muse is already working on another piercing weapon and is looking to rebalance when it is introduced.
--- Quote from: RearAdmiralZill on July 29, 2013, 12:28:25 pm ---What's the point of lowering the modifier if you want to lower its shatter anyway? It needs to still do perma hull damage to be a useful gun.
--- End quote ---
That's an interesting perspective. I think I have to respectfully disagree.
For me the merc was always more a support weapon almost like a gattling gun with greater precision and range but less dps. A gun good for stripping armor to allow a kill and precision component desctruction.
Being able to outright merc someone's armor and perma down never really felt right to me. It always seemed like it should be a gun to soften up a target but not to outright kill it. I remember commenting to Squash months ago that the merc would probably be perfect if it just stopped doing perma damage and since then the perma damage has been lowered quite a bit through several different methods, and I think for the better. Reduicing the perma damage even further might not be a bad idea in my opinion.
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