Map & Scenario editor

[Phores]

Thinking about the list of ideas I keep spouting I think I can reduce the list of things I'd love to see massively by inclusion of a map + scenario editor. It would need at least:

• Terrain editor: A basic requirement. Hills, map size, limits etc.
• Scenery editor: Wrecks, buildings, clouds. Made separate as some of these may warrant special effects (eg. damaging areas) or be slightly dynamic (eg. moving Koth points, potentially collapsing areas).
• Team editor: I'd say allow up to 4 teams (classic RBGY) to maintain atleast 2-a-side while keeping to 8 ships max.
• Victory condition editor: Preset ones for DM and templates for a couple of other basic ones (Koth etc.) but should be able to script in custom ones.
• Spawn editor: Not just spawn locations but teams and conditions that allow/select locations.

(More than 2 teams may require the compass and "spot-boxes" to display in their team's colour, something I'd like to see anyway for the compass.)

I can see this would generate a lot of imballanced maps, but they could easily be an aside "custom map/match", a vote system for them could allow the best ones to be easily found and downloaded; Possibly even added into regular match cycles if deemed good enough by community and/or muse.

If implemented nice additional features to see would be:

• Maps only downloading and saving once, only using separate scripting for the alternate modes on the map.
• Donations to map makers, to draw in more skill and finesseful maps.
• "Trigger editor" a simplistic GUI for basic scripting, usable by newbies.
• Extension for adventure mode when it releases, allowing cutom mini-storylines (even if without rewards the stories can be fun)

Would also allow muse developers to focus a bit more on bug fixing and ballancing, offloading some content generation to the community. Almost always comes up with something new/amazing (just look at ARTS games and TD's, entire genres spawned from community map editing/modding).

[Squidslinger Gilder]

I'd actually love this. But I think building a stand alone editor would take a lot more effort than they are able to handle atm with keeping the content coming.

It is however, the ultimate way to extend a community. That and allowing personal server hosting. UT99 got as huge as it did because they provided the tools to extend the game beyond the original scope and did not hinder the community from just going nuts with it. Something that modern gaming sorely lacks. Valve is one of the only companies still around that caters to this crowd and look how well their titles are doing. They don't have to release new titles all the time and sales continue strong even when they aren't on sales. Arma devs saw similar happen when Day Z hit.

Course ultimately I think its your difference between PC and console game companies. PC crowd demands more from their games and the console crowd wants stuff dumbed down. Unfortunately the PC master race is at the mercy of console peasants far too often.

[Pickle]

This was discussed back on the old forum.  If I remember correctly, the system for building the maps requires a lot of fettling to get collision maps to work and get the graphical elements right.  I don't think they are built as assemblies of modular elements.

I'd also love to see player-built maps, and I'd accept it if they had to be less polished.

Given that AM is going to need a lot more maps, hopefully the system for generating them will be improved and your wish might be an outside possibility.

[Squidslinger Gilder]

That would be an idea. Have the community help make the AM maps. They are going to require a lot of routes. If tools were available I'm sure a few would chip in.

[Phores]

If I remember correctly, the system for building the maps requires a lot of fettling to get collision maps to work and get the graphical elements right.  I don't think they are built as assemblies of modular elements.

I'd also love to see player-built maps, and I'd accept it if they had to be less polished.

The first part makes it sound like this would a very useful tool to make for the developers too then
Player built maps being less polished isn't much of an issue as you said, besides there's often a few diligent souls who will work their hardest just to one up the developer's map quality (even if just by putting so many more hours into it).

Even if the physical map was hard to edit, scenario editing would be a wonderful thing to see just for trying new game modes. Would probably want an extended map info sheet for complex ideas and map designs though... click preview map for an expanded map and fluff info sounds sensible (loading screen isnt enough time for reading the fluff as is).

[Squidslinger Gilder]

Well it doesn't look like it would be FPS map making. Just landscapes. Might be harder or easier depending on the tools for it.

I used to make a lot of maps for Marathon games long ago. Bungie's Forge and Anvil were awesome tools. I knew them inside and out so much I developed some very complex levels which pushed the limits of the engine beyond what many at the time were doing. But it was really hard transferring those skills into more modern engines like Unreal. I finally just gave up with Unreal. The terminology and design concept used for Unreal just seemed totally backward. Lot of things seemed overly complicated as well. Forge one thing would take just a simple step while in UE it would take a few steps.

So it does take effort to design a toolset which is not only easy to use but also powerful. Unity being an engine which seems to run a variety of games, I imagine isn't  super simple.

[Pickle]

I have this nagging suspicion that someone from Muse once said that the basic terrain data was taken from USGS survey data, and that was then tweaked and added to.  But terrain data can be generated (eg. Terragen) and I remember using generated terrains to build Operation Flashpoint scenarios a decade ago.