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Spire Discussion.

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Echoez:

--- Quote from: HamsterIV on June 14, 2013, 12:58:36 pm ---I am not fond of the Spire as a sniper platform since the Junker and the Galleon can both outperform it if they are also set up for that roll. I see success of sniper Spires more an artifact of the other team not coming equipped to deal with the threat, than the Spire's superiority in the roll.

--- End quote ---

The Sniper Spire has the same problem any sniping platform has and that's the Mercury gun, any ship fit with one of these will take down a sniper Spire, cause their gun will be kept disabled and your pityful hull wiped along with it, funny thing being the Mercury will keep eatting into a Spire's perma hull since it's so weak. Basically, a Mercury will keep any big sniper weapon disabled, including the Galleon's weapons so I think that's more to do with the gun than the Spire.

RearAdmiralZill:

--- Quote ---PS: Dammit Zill, I was supposed to start the 'Buff the Spire' crusade! ; n;
--- End quote ---

Funny you say that, cause I proposed buffing it back in the old forums. It's size doesn't represent its armor/hull stats well at all.

HamsterIV:
Galleons have more guns to break than the spire, thus it is hard for single merc to pin an entire ship's weapons down. Even double merc has a hard time keeping a galleon's big guns silent. Plus with the beefier hull the galleon's engineers are less stressed and can focus on returning fire.

I still love a sniper Junker, its wafer thin hull makes a mockery of counter merc fire from all but the best of gunners.

Getting back to the original point, I think the devs walk a very fine line with the Spire. It currently sits on the very verge of being OP. If the devs give it too big a buff it would unbalance the entire system they have created.  For example imagine if they had made the left facing light gun the now with the 45 degree tilt and put the hull repair component closer to the main gun. It would be a Pyramidion style brawler with a medium cannon. All brawler Pyra pilots would switch to it and the only reason to fly a pyra would be to use double mercs against the metaspires as you back out of combat.

Perhaps that was an exaggeration.

Echoez:

--- Quote from: RearAdmiralZill on June 14, 2013, 01:34:12 pm ---Funny you say that, cause I proposed buffing it back in the old forums. It's size doesn't represent its armor/hull stats well at all.

--- End quote ---

I wasn't in the old forums tho..

and no matter what loadout, the point still remains, the Spire is not durable enough to fit a close range build and not fast enough to be a sniper. It just has many guns on it that can face forward and that's not that great of an advantage to bring on any team (no matter how many ships) compared to bringing an actual fighting ship or if you realy need long range, a Galleon or a Junker/Pyra fit for that job, heck even a Flak/Lumber Fish can do it.

Moo:
These two posts. Poor bottom-deck engineer is stuck with a very important but very uninteresting job of keeping the hull and engines up. Not being able to see forward from here doesn't help (there was another post mentioning this but I can't find it). With how squishy the Spire is, even a quick trip to rebuild the main gun can mean a sudden death, so basically moving off that bottom deck during combat is risky. Yes, if you are sniping, he can help on the top deck guns (the front left one is at too strange a position and angle to really be useful), but being able to shoot without being shot back is a luxury you won't often have when facing decent opposition.
I'm not sure how it could be improved though really. Adding an extra gun facing backwards on the bottom deck perhaps, but may be considered "too good"? Maybe move the front left gun to the bottom deck instead? But backwards-facing guns rarely get much use anyway, especially when the captain has tar, so it may not help much...

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