Author Topic: Buying Time: Using a spanner for repairs  (Read 15969 times)

Offline naufrago

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Buying Time: Using a spanner for repairs
« on: May 25, 2013, 04:37:24 pm »
I was recently called a terrible engineer, which kind of pissed me off. So I started thinking, what could I have done differently that would have kept us alive and made everyone happy? I'll start by explaining my general strategy for repairing as main engi.

First thing you probably tell a new engi is that mallet is for repairs and spanner is for rebuilds. But what if the hull is only taking light damage? A mallet often results in a lot of overhealing and a hefty cooldown, which is kind of wasteful. It can give you time to run around and whack other components with the mallet, but doing so can cause you to lose a large amount of armor before it can be repaired again. In those cases, sitting on the hull and whacking it with a spanner can let you survive significantly longer. I'll explain with a purely hypothetical situation.

Say you have 270 armor and you are taking 30dps. After 9 secs, the armor will break and the hull will be exposed. If you wait 7 or 8 seconds and hit it with a mallet, you bring the armor back up to about 270, which will then break 9 seconds later. Total armor uptime is now ~16secs. Now if you try healing with the spanner initially (which heals 20hp/s), you effectively reduce the incoming dps to 10. After about 22 seconds, the armor will drop enough where you can get the full effect of the mallet (which is more efficient at 25hp/s), which will bring it back to about 270. 9 secs later, the armor will break, resulting in a total armor uptime of ~31 secs, which is nearly double the amount of time it would have stayed up if you'd just used the mallet.

In actual combat, the incoming dps varies significantly, but it usually buys at least 5-15 seconds of armor uptime. It's especially effective against gatlings and flak that chip away at the armor relatively slowly (as opposed to bursting it down). However, all the time you're sitting there on the hull, you're not doing anything else. On the Spire, Goldfish, and Pyramidion, that's not much of a problem. On a Spire, you're not really doing much else. On a Goldfish, armor is still low enough that your captain will love you for keeping them alive longer, and the other engi can handle most other things himself since he's not doing much else anyway. On a Pyramidion, it's still really useful since the balloon isn't your responsibility and the hull has enough armor that you can still run back to hit the engines when necessary once you're no longer using the spanner. Even on a Squid, you can usually buy an extra second here and there between rebuilds.

The decision is a little harder to make on a Junker or Galleon. Since main engi is responsible for both hull and balloon, and pulling the gungineer off a gun results in a significant loss of dps, you have to choose between keeping the hull alive a few more seconds or keeping the balloon up a few more seconds. However, the Junker and Galleon have a lot more armor than most other ships and the balloon tends to be the primary responsibility of the main engi, so the extra few seconds of armor uptime tend to go less appreciated on those ships. But when both armor and balloon are dropping, i tend to prioritize hull.

The primary thing to take away from this is that every second you can afford to delay using the mallet, you're keeping the armor up an additional second. It's also important to note that it's better to use the mallet a little early than a little late, because burst damage could ruin your world.


Back to my story, both the armor and balloon on the Junker were taking heavy damage, so I decided to buy as much time for the hull and let the balloon pop. This upset the captain because all he saw was me camping the hull for several seconds, followed by the armor breaking while I was still standing there. There was also the problem of how I couldn't make a round trip between hull and balloon during the mallet's repair cooldown. No matter how I tried I couldn't manage to do it. It was weird because I knew I'd managed to make the round trip before, but couldn't manage it in that match. I just tried it again a few seconds ago in the Sandbox and managed it in 7 seconds. Really weird. Potential bug maybe?

So because I couldn't keep both hull and balloon up, I prioritized the hull. When I tried to do both, we died faster, resulting in him calling me terrible and ragequitting after the match. I could have done better to communicate what I was doing and letting the other engi know to help with the balloon, so that was bad on me, but is there anything in my strategy above that you see is glaringly awful? Am I prioritizing hull armor too much?
« Last Edit: May 25, 2013, 04:52:31 pm by naufrago »

Offline N-Sunderland

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Re: Buying Time: Using a spanner for repairs
« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2013, 04:49:28 pm »
I definitely agree with using the spanner for the first few seconds of fire, but with how quickly the gat kills armour you don't always get the chance. Using the spanner is also obviously good for kerosene.

As for your story, which ship was it? A Junker?

Offline naufrago

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Re: Buying Time: Using a spanner for repairs
« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2013, 04:51:57 pm »
Ah, yeah, it was on a Junker. Just realized I forgot to mention that.

Offline Moo

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Re: Buying Time: Using a spanner for repairs
« Reply #3 on: May 25, 2013, 04:59:18 pm »
You can hit the balloon (but not the engines) from below the platform, which should make the trip between them quicker.
Also, the same engineer doesn't need to cover both. One crew member can do the top engines and balloon, and someone else can take care of the hull by hitting it from below/in front. It can be a bit tricky to get into the right position, but it's certainly possible.

Offline naufrago

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Re: Buying Time: Using a spanner for repairs
« Reply #4 on: May 25, 2013, 05:08:15 pm »
Yeah, I know about that. =p It's actually kinda funny when the pilot doesn't know about it because they sometimes get confused why I constantly run back to hit them with my mallet. They assume I'm being silly or rude.

Offline N-Sunderland

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Re: Buying Time: Using a spanner for repairs
« Reply #5 on: May 25, 2013, 05:13:28 pm »
Another thing I'd note is that when the balloon goes down, the pilot should be using a spanner to bring it back up. This takes a huge amount of the workload off the main engineer.

Offline dragonmere

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Re: Buying Time: Using a spanner for repairs
« Reply #6 on: May 25, 2013, 05:20:48 pm »
There is no such thing as too much hull repair from a single engineer during a battle. If there is any chance that anything will be hitting your ship, there should probably be an engineer already tapping with a spanner, just as you said for light repairs. And if you actually came up with the spanner strategy completely on your own - good on you, you are going to do well in this game. I usually have to directly request spanner for repairs when 2/3 or more armor remains, and half the time the engineer thinks I'm full of crap and/or crazy.

In the future, if you are on a ship that has 2 or more engineers, and you plan on taking the hull, just announce it. You are on hull during battle, and you are unavailable to get the balloon so the other engineer MUST handle it every time. Same with engines, if one goes down a competent captain can manage just fine, but if 2 or more go red, call the 2nd engineer to get them, then help out quickly when you evade/kill the enemy. You can't be expected to keep the ship alive AND fix everything at the same time, and keeping the ship alive is a much more important task.

If you did any of the things you said above on MY ship, you would be my hero. I've had people on my flak cannon, that I absolutely PRAISED for holding their flak shot, who said that other captains had ripped them apart for not constantly firing. It's all just a matter of experience, perspective, and personal preference.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2013, 05:23:00 pm by dragonmere »

Offline Mattilald Anguisad

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Re: Buying Time: Using a spanner for repairs
« Reply #7 on: May 25, 2013, 05:29:30 pm »
Spanner gives you a few precious seconds of protection against some forms of weapon filre (like ussualy against gat fire). Agains single gat fire you can ussualy get about 4-6 seconds extra, as opposed by starting with mallet.

Offline Sonoskay

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Re: Buying Time: Using a spanner for repairs
« Reply #8 on: May 25, 2013, 07:03:58 pm »
Seems like you are a fine engineer. I know i don't have the experience alot of people do i do try to better myself by reading and learning. And to be honest if you were on the hull and  balloon is going down and if you are under real heavy fire its a safe bet your engines are going down too... So... why didn't the captain break away from his steering wheel and repair the balloon? or at least try?  chances are your not moving very far without your balloon. and even worse if your engines are down too....on Junkers,  goldfish and galleon when i captain i usually take it upon myself to tap the balloon if things are going to hell and my engies have their hands full.


It sounds like you did just fine. and you will always find captains who have their heads so far up their butts that it seems like they are fighting a completely  different battle. Dont get too  upset ;)
« Last Edit: May 25, 2013, 07:06:49 pm by Sonoskay »

Offline naufrago

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Re: Buying Time: Using a spanner for repairs
« Reply #9 on: May 25, 2013, 08:23:24 pm »
While I'm worried that your opinions are skewed from just getting my perspective, you've convinced me that it's not a big deal. Your opinions mirror mine pretty closely, so I'll just move on. Thanks.

Offline Imagine

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Re: Buying Time: Using a spanner for repairs
« Reply #10 on: May 25, 2013, 10:42:38 pm »
I venture to say that any captain that just yells at you for being terrible and ragequits after the game (or better yet, while the game is still in progress) is not someone worth listening to :)

As for the topic itself, yeah, I actually use the spanner on the hull if it's getting peppered as well. If there's damage on it but we're not taking constant fire, I'll mallet.

Offline Captain Smollett

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Re: Buying Time: Using a spanner for repairs
« Reply #11 on: May 26, 2013, 12:07:24 am »
Ha, can't believe he called you a bad engineer.

On my Junker the balloon is the Captain's responsibility.  For goodness sakes the captain sits right beneath it. In extreme cases of balloon locking I'll call the secondary engineer for help but the primary engineer stays glued to the hull.

Anyways, don't worry about captains like that. Seems like you're engineering just fine.

Offline Shinkurex

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Re: Buying Time: Using a spanner for repairs
« Reply #12 on: May 26, 2013, 12:11:21 am »
naufrago, I know you know where I stand on this... you've kept me alive countless times, and you are deadly with a flare :))... you are always welcome aboard my ship anytime :)

Offline Queso

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Re: Buying Time: Using a spanner for repairs
« Reply #13 on: May 26, 2013, 12:30:46 am »
I know you've been on my ship and one of my engineers may have given you a bit of flak. The one thing Is like to say is that sometimes it's better to do a bit of overheal and get the rest of the ship fixed up rather than baby sitting the hull out of combat. Otherwise it's a good tactic to use if your going to be baby sitting either way.

Offline NikolaiLev

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Re: Buying Time: Using a spanner for repairs
« Reply #14 on: May 26, 2013, 02:22:15 pm »
I know you've been on my ship and one of my engineers may have given you a bit of flak. The one thing Is like to say is that sometimes it's better to do a bit of overheal and get the rest of the ship fixed up rather than baby sitting the hull out of combat. Otherwise it's a good tactic to use if your going to be baby sitting either way.

Doing this is only acceptable if nothing else needs attention.  Otherwise you're wasting a lot of time.  And keep in mind that the Spanner is just plain inefficient for repairs; it repairs 20 HP per second, where the other tools are 24 and 28.  Sometimes you're better off just letting the armor take 200 damage and then repairing with your mallet.