Author Topic: Suicide - risk/reward option or cheap tactic?  (Read 16126 times)

Offline knoxi

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Re: Suicide - risk/reward option or cheap tactic?
« Reply #30 on: May 14, 2013, 11:54:32 am »
Perhaps someone has already mentioned this, and I've missed it whilst trying to take in all the post thus far...

But Deathmatch is a ruleset that's been around for a very long time and in all my experience Deathmatch has always meant.... Killing someone else gains you a point. Killing yourself loses you a point.

This would still allow for very small amounts of suicide meta, (you could force a 2v2 fight rather than being picked off one by one) but would actively punish Death and reward Kills, which is what Deathmatch is all about.

Right now killing yourself for a fresh respawn seems more of an "open" or "sandbox" match up.

Offline -Muse- Cullen

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Re: Suicide - risk/reward option or cheap tactic?
« Reply #31 on: May 14, 2013, 12:02:31 pm »
Now hold on... I think that this is a very tactical position... This game is heavily strategic, and I'm sure that if any one of us had thought of this first, we would've used it in cogs without hesitation.

I agree with this point- if the resources are available, why not use them?

Mattilald Anguisad, I can see why you referred me to Wazulu's post, but it is a matter of morality. This reminds me of a very relevant quote:

"To be bound by a sense of morality is to be bound by a set of rules that go unregulated. From Alexander the Great to Genghis Khan, these men knew more than anyone that power and success only ever come at the expense of others power, and others success. The world lives in a state of balance: for every winner there must also be a loser, and in face of the greatest opponents, indeed, many losers." -TheHeretic, on strategies for MOBA games.

Not using them may be 'nice', but using it gives the team an advantage. I feel that the main reason for the hate of suiciding is that its a very difficult maneuver to counter. It removes all of the built up progress that the team has made against an enemy ship. While I wouldn't suicide to tactical repair, I have no problem against it. However, it definitely makes for much less interesting matches to watch(being interesting is the pont), so it probably should be removed from the Cogs.

Offline Mattilald Anguisad

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Re: Suicide - risk/reward option or cheap tactic?
« Reply #32 on: May 14, 2013, 03:00:01 pm »
I only got upset becouse Gilder tried make himself into a victim.
I'm not really upset that he used it, becaouse there was no rule against it, but the whole point of this discussion is wether such rule should be implemented - amd I'm up for it to be implemented.

Offline NikolaiLev

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Re: Suicide - risk/reward option or cheap tactic?
« Reply #33 on: May 14, 2013, 03:51:39 pm »
And it take away the whole poin of PERMAhull.

This is pretty much the most relevant and compelling argument against this tactic.  This completely bypasses a mechanic (permahull) in a way that confers an advantage (gives no kill points to the enemy).  Just because this exploit has a potential risk to it, doesn't change the fact it's an exploit; an unintentional use of the system that results in an undesireable gameplay mechanic (suiciding).

This is easy to fix.  Suicides reward the enemy a kill point.  That's all.  Really, this should be the case already.

Offline RearAdmiralZill

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Re: Suicide - risk/reward option or cheap tactic?
« Reply #34 on: May 14, 2013, 04:17:33 pm »
I think the reason it doesn't is because the pilot is doing the damage, thus the "final hit" is from him and not the enemy team.

Also, here is the call for Cogs.

https://gunsoficarus.com/community/forum/index.php/topic,440.msg16212.html#msg16212

Offline Squidslinger Gilder

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Re: Suicide - risk/reward option or cheap tactic?
« Reply #35 on: May 14, 2013, 07:44:53 pm »
News flash squid can easly get away from all other ships. It has speed of 46m/s next fastest shis is goldfish with 32m/s. any half decent squid captain should have no problem running far enoug away from the enemy to be able to suicide safely.

Do you even fly a squid often enough? Muse screwed with it enough where it literally isn't the fastest anymore no matter what Muse spews out. I've been testing it and Goldfish or even Pyras using kerosene can keep pace with a squid using kerosene. Its insane. The squid should outrun anything easily. It should take kerosene to catch it but right now it is not. Match the other night against a goldfish using it and I literally could not outrun it even with my ship using kerosene. Heck the fish pulled away enough where it was able to get it's hwacha a firing angle on me. What the heck?!

Everyone in that match was the victim. I've already said that multiple times. I just wasn't going to put up with it so I resorted to using something I didn't plan to use until a much more dire situation.

Offline Mattilald Anguisad

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Re: Suicide - risk/reward option or cheap tactic?
« Reply #36 on: May 15, 2013, 04:45:19 am »
What are you talking about? Squid is still by far the fastest ship in the game.
I still had problems, becouse I kept overshoting speeding Pyras, when I was flying Squid yesterday (yes I'm not a very good squid pilot, but I can still run away like nobody's buisness).

Offline lyravega

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Re: Suicide - risk/reward option or cheap tactic?
« Reply #37 on: May 15, 2013, 09:54:13 am »
This is completely against the idea of permanent hull. It's not a trick, it is an exploit. Something in the game is abused to bypass another part of the game; suicide to bypass hull damage.

Offline Spasmic Monkey

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Re: Suicide - risk/reward option or cheap tactic?
« Reply #38 on: May 18, 2013, 05:49:29 am »
I see nothing wrong with 'taricide'. If i was in a battle and somebody did it to me sure i would be annoyed but i would count it as a tactical maneuver and adapt to it. Not everyone does it and the people that do, don't do it all the time. It's not like people tar themselves every match, every time they are about to die. It's a risky maneuver, which can give an easy kill to the enemy and is only done in certain situations.

I've talked to Gilder and i respect him a lot, i think the reason he did it is just and see no reason why everyone is so butt hurt. 

I hope it stays in the game ....... just get over it

Offline Squidslinger Gilder

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Re: Suicide - risk/reward option or cheap tactic?
« Reply #39 on: May 18, 2013, 06:04:16 am »
What are you talking about? Squid is still by far the fastest ship in the game.
I still had problems, becouse I kept overshoting speeding Pyras, when I was flying Squid yesterday (yes I'm not a very good squid pilot, but I can still run away like nobody's buisness).

I fly squid very often and I face a lot of opponents. Its my baby and trust me...I know when its not performing like it should. It used to take captains using kerosene or moonshine to catch or even pull away from a squid without those. I know cause Brick and I used to have a lot of duels and that was the only way he'd survive against me. But I've seen Pyras keeping pace with kerosene when I'm using kerosene too. Then Goldfish pulling away with similar. Both going backwards with me going forwards. Stuff is broken. Muse is prolly too busy fixing the server problems atm but a lot needs addressing.

Offline Morblitz

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Re: Suicide - risk/reward option or cheap tactic?
« Reply #40 on: May 18, 2013, 06:34:39 am »
Can we stop using terms like butthurt and whining? It devalues any form of legitimate debate, and frankly is really immature.

Offline teweedo

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Re: Suicide - risk/reward option or cheap tactic?
« Reply #41 on: May 18, 2013, 09:17:25 am »
It's game breaking, against the spirit of the game, against the spirit of the permahull and against the spirit of deathmatch. It should be removed as a possibility.

However, we can't blame those who used it so far since it isn't against the rules, it was simply overlooked by the devs and needs to be fixed. Not such a big deal.