Author Topic: Lock Gunner out of slots 1, 3, and 4 for midmatch join. Poll  (Read 290 times)

Offline Richard LeMoon

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Lock Gunner out of slots 1, 3, and 4 for midmatch join. Poll
« on: August 06, 2017, 01:12:33 pm »
This came out of the discussion on the lobby autoswitch poll. The image below is what you see if you try to join a running match in slots 2, 3, and 4 as PILOT.

With this change, players trying to join a running match as GUNNER in slots 3 and 4 would also get that message, regardless of what the other crew are. Gunner trying to join in slot 1 would get the message "You will be switched to Pilot. Continue?"

Engineers will be free to midmatch join in any slot.

To be clear, classes allowed to midmatch join are as follows:

Slot 1. Pilot, Engineer, NO Gunner
Slot 2. Gunner, Engineer, NO Pilot
Slot 3. Engineer, NO Gunner or Pilot
Slot 4. Engineer, NO Gunner or Pilot

This would have NO effect on lobbies. In a lobby, you could still fill your ship with gunners if you wish.



Offline Huskarr

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Re: Lock Gunner out of slots 1, 3, and 4 for midmatch join. Poll
« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2017, 01:31:40 pm »
Sounds good to me tbh.

Offline Dementio

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Re: Lock Gunner out of slots 1, 3, and 4 for midmatch join. Poll
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2017, 01:34:58 pm »
And it isn't possible to change it to "Is there already a gunner on the ship? Don't allow a second gunner to join mid-match, no matter the slot.". I don't know if a random engineer taking the gunner slot while in the lobby is a good idea to not allow a gunner to join at all.

Offline Psi Crow

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Re: Lock Gunner out of slots 1, 3, and 4 for midmatch join. Poll
« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2017, 08:32:38 am »
And it isn't possible to change it to "Is there already a gunner on the ship? Don't allow a second gunner to join mid-match, no matter the slot.".
that would be best, but let's just get it quick for the moment

Offline Naoura

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Re: Lock Gunner out of slots 1, 3, and 4 for midmatch join. Poll
« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2017, 11:41:57 am »
I like it. Coming in from the Matchmaker would make this pretty effective and ensure that we avoid mishaps with people joining as roles that they don't need aboard the ship.

I can see a lot of newer players quitting a match because they can't be the role they want, however. It'll be annoying for both parties, but it's a healthy change to avoid toxicity. If the newer player joins in Lobby, of course, it'll be fine, so that's going to keep most of the issues to a minimum.

Offline Corporal Ravioli

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Re: Lock Gunner out of slots 1, 3, and 4 for midmatch join. Poll
« Reply #5 on: August 07, 2017, 12:38:50 pm »
The idea of binding crew roles to the slot position is horribly confusing. Seems to me it would be so much more simple to just detect if there is already a gunner and switch any other joining gunners to engineer.

What's the point of binding it to a slot if I'm joining mid-match? Wouldn't the current crew already define which slots I'm allowed to join on?

Offline Richard LeMoon

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Re: Lock Gunner out of slots 1, 3, and 4 for midmatch join. Poll
« Reply #6 on: August 07, 2017, 04:41:38 pm »
Not really. Gunner is traditionally a 2nd slot class (and 2nd class class xD). If I don't want a gunner, I put an engie there. If I lose a crew, I don't want a gunner joining in another slot.

Actually, I never want a gunner to midmatch join, so slot 2 allowign gunner would still be a pain to me.

Offline HamsterIV

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Re: Lock Gunner out of slots 1, 3, and 4 for midmatch join. Poll
« Reply #7 on: August 07, 2017, 05:36:31 pm »
I would support anything that lowers the number if mid match joining gunners. That includes forcing anyone who mid match joins to be an engineer (unless it is in the captain's spot).

Offline Corporal Ravioli

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Re: Lock Gunner out of slots 1, 3, and 4 for midmatch join. Poll
« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2017, 07:02:48 am »
If I don't want a gunner, I put an engie there. If I lose a crew, I don't want a gunner joining in another slot.

Fine. I'm seeing your logic here.

This is exercising more control than I typically do. I'm not going to bother trying to shuffle my crew just to get my gunner visually "next" to me. I see how you'd use it as a purposeful restriction, but the common game isn't going to be so finely tuned all the time. I don't think it's fair to employ a design that could let one engineer join an otherwise empty boat and forever screw that ship into never having a gunner. There may be plenty of matches in the future where some level 15 hwatchafish pilot is hoping for a gunner and can't understand for the life of him why he isn't getting one.

It seems simpler to detect one gunner, switch other slots to "Join as Engineer," and be done with it. However, I do think that there should be some compromise to allow the pilot to restrict what classes can join his ship before the match begins.


EDIT: Here's a funny idea: Default crew class is ALWAYS engineer. The pilot can assign gunners through the recommendation feature. This way the pilot gets to choose their gunner AND ammunition, and it is impossible for a gunner to join in the middle, like you want.

This would change how gunner is treated as a class, so the expectations for progression would need to be shifted. It could also inadvertently exclude newer players; never get chosen, never get levels, never get chosen.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2017, 07:17:34 am by Corporal Ravioli »

Offline Long Max

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Re: Lock Gunner out of slots 1, 3, and 4 for midmatch join. Poll
« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2017, 09:41:55 am »
Better lock Slot 1 for pilot only. It's a very stupid situation when for some reason you lost the pilot and the engineer joins this place. And autoswitch must give him standart kero-claw-hydro tools, because if he join as engineer on captain sit you can guess his pilot skills.
Similar tool switch must work if player auto switched to engineer, mallet-spanner-extinguisher.
Making gunner slot generates annoying micromanagement in lobby.
Allow or not allow mid match gunner join is hard question. If you go full AI carrofish join any gunner make you happy, if you go double novice buff engineer squid or pyra even 45-level gunner set pilot to panic. Muse never allow kick players after join. So we need mechanism operated by pilot, how much gunner he want for current ship  - none-1-2-3. Default is 1 and make it make change is not too obvious for novice pliot. It can work both on midmatch and lobby.

Offline Psi Crow

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Re: Lock Gunner out of slots 1, 3, and 4 for midmatch join. Poll
« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2017, 11:41:52 am »
How about this then:

Add "Desired number of Gunners" to the Shiploadout (default is 1, locked for Novices)

In Lobby:
insteand of "[AI Crewman] Click to crew" write "[AI Crewman] Engineer needed" and "[AI Crewman] Gunner needed" in the right numbers.
An engi takes the Gunner slot -> the next free slot displays "Gunner needed"
A gunner takes an engi slot -> the gunner slot displays now "Engineer needed"
Full Crew and too many or not enough gunners -> Talk to each other, I don't think a warning sign is necessary

Midmatch-joins:
Auto-switch to the missing class, depending what slot you click on (with warning message like in original post)
Alternative: Switch to gunner if needed, otherwise switch to engineer.

Result:
No additional micro management in Lobby
No undesired gunner midmatch joins
No undesired engineer midmatch joins
Easy to use and to understand for captains and crew

Con: Needs bit more coding

Offline Richard LeMoon

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Re: Lock Gunner out of slots 1, 3, and 4 for midmatch join. Poll
« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2017, 04:42:53 pm »
Con: Needs bit more coding

Likely needs substantially more coding, and that is the kicker. The indications were that if the pilot logic was reused, this could be done in the next few updates. If a completely new system needs building... who knows?

Offline Long Max

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Re: Lock Gunner out of slots 1, 3, and 4 for midmatch join. Poll
« Reply #12 on: August 08, 2017, 06:41:09 pm »
If lock for novices number of gunners  still must be option 1 or 0. Some players still able learn good thing for start. But i am sure lock not really needed, at least this is action from pilot side to change number.
Auto switch for gunner requires from pilot make recommended loadout all time in lobby, sometimes there is simply no time for it, very easy to forget and force player join with wrong loadout.

Offline Psi Crow

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Re: Lock Gunner out of slots 1, 3, and 4 for midmatch join. Poll
« Reply #13 on: August 08, 2017, 07:40:51 pm »
The indications were that if the pilot logic was reused, this could be done in the next few updates. If a completely new system needs building... who knows?
I know. I prefer quick for this one. just a spontaneous vision I had