Author Topic: MKII Carronade: cannonball or dragonbreath?  (Read 3819 times)

Offline Richard LeMoon

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MKII Carronade: cannonball or dragonbreath?
« on: May 08, 2017, 05:42:34 pm »
I have been talking with the devs involved with the MKII project, and there is a snag in the current MKII Carronade. The current stats being worked on by players call for a 'cannonball' type of shot, which would fit a carronade very well. However, the effects, sounds, coding, and animations needed to bring this to fruition are daunting now that they have been explained to me. I offered to switch the model to Lumberjack, but was informed that the work on MKII Carronade had already begun. This means that MKII carro will come out next, one way or the other. So, we have two options:

1. Keep the current cannonball stats for MKII Carro, which would require more work on Muse's part to make a polished effect = more time and less other things.

2. Shelve the cannonball stats for a later date (maybe MKII LJ), and work out new 'scattershot' stats for the carro (no effect changes needed) = less work for Muse, start over with stats and more time for testing.

Letus suggested a dragonbreath carronade a few times during our extensive balance talks in Discord, which sounds fascinating. Shatter/Fire or Fire/Shatter (it would make no difference, really) closer range carro with built in incendiary.

Or, we could come up with some other interesting stats. Slugs (single raycast projectile, no jitter)? Other damage combos?
« Last Edit: May 08, 2017, 05:45:06 pm by Richard LeMoon »

Offline HamsterIV

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Re: MKII Carronade: cannonball or dragonbreath?
« Reply #1 on: May 08, 2017, 05:56:13 pm »
How about making the Carronade M2 still fill the close range balloon pop role but change its shooting characteristics to streaming damage like the flame thrower. Instead of liquid fire it throws out a steady stream of aerodynamic razor blades.

Offline Naoura

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Re: MKII Carronade: cannonball or dragonbreath?
« Reply #2 on: May 08, 2017, 07:10:03 pm »
I would most certainly agree with Hamster on keeping it in it's niche, but the Shatter/Fire combo is interesting. Potentially longer range than baseline carro, but with a restricted cone?

Then there's the question of fire chance on the projectiles, which would be fun in it's own right.

All-in-all, I would say that the stats that were made for the Mk. II Carro would be better on, say, the Mino, which would benefit greatly from having a somewhat... better alternative.

Offline BlackenedPies

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Re: MKII Carronade: cannonball or dragonbreath?
« Reply #3 on: May 08, 2017, 08:23:01 pm »
Keep heavy clip in mind. Making it powerful but increasing spread doesn't balance it out. If anything it should have less spread than the original so heavy clip is less necessary. I'd prefer a longer range version - slugs with some jitter and maybe burst AoE. Shells are more interesting though

Fire isn't flechette. Giving it fire damage doesn't keep its role as a balloon popper. Fire is by far the best damage in the game (excluding impact). It has the second best value against armor and is nearly as potent as flechette and explosive against balloons and hull. I assume that's the reason a heavy fire gun doesn't exist. If you wanna give it fire properties, give it an ignition chance. Fire damage is difficult to balance for a heavy weapon

Equal to or less spread, not greater. Longer range - high close range power will be abused by Fish. Ignition chance, not fire damage
« Last Edit: May 08, 2017, 08:28:07 pm by BlackenedPies »

Offline HamsterIV

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Re: MKII Carronade: cannonball or dragonbreath?
« Reply #4 on: May 09, 2017, 10:54:14 am »
I wasn't saying change the dammage type to flame. I was saying keep the damage type as flechette and change the clip size and refire to output a continuous stream of dammage as opposed to the quick bursts of damage like the current cannonades do. Also, and I can't overstate this, flying razor blades.

Offline Queso

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Re: MKII Carronade: cannonball or dragonbreath?
« Reply #5 on: May 09, 2017, 11:17:44 am »
A more continuous fire carronade certainly seems interesting. Less a balloon pop more a balloon drain?

Offline Richard LeMoon

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Re: MKII Carronade: cannonball or dragonbreath?
« Reply #6 on: May 09, 2017, 12:01:32 pm »
That does not sound very 'carronade', but is an interesting concept. That is actually what everyone thought the Minotaur would do, aside from balloon damage. Though, everyone thought it would do Impact damage, so, ya, I guess it would have been about that.

Here is the workpage we have stated. This is plan B if Cannonball Carro proves too much work.

https://trello.com/c/cjNxjHNi/80-dragonbreath-heavy-carronade

Offline SirNotlag

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Re: MKII Carronade: cannonball or dragonbreath?
« Reply #7 on: May 09, 2017, 09:20:25 pm »
Well if we want to keep it simple we can just narrow horizantal arcs to 25 instead of 35, decrease bullet spread to 4.5 instead of 6, increase range to 550m instead of 400m, and spread the damage over 3 shots instead of 2 reducing its DPS.

there are plenty of little ways to change how the gun works and feels without changing anything too drastic. I am however in the camp where i want to see a giant shotgun spew fire.

for comparison the original Mk. I does 1340 to balloon, 180 to hull, 255 to armour, 800 to components in about 2.5 seconds with a single clip. This is combining both fletchette and shatter if anyone wants to adjust the damages or stats.

Offline Kestril

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Re: MKII Carronade: cannonball or dragonbreath?
« Reply #8 on: May 09, 2017, 11:48:19 pm »
I like the dragonbreath gun. It will be interesting to have a disable gun that primarily relies on fire instead of balloon. That would certainly make it unique. I'm for a dragon'sbreath carro mk II.

A note that MK II guns so far haven't changed the gun's role entierly, but just how that gun functions within that role. So "close range disable" for the carro changing from shatter to fire is good with me!

Offline Dementio

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Re: MKII Carronade: cannonball or dragonbreath?
« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2017, 03:13:09 am »
I would be happy with going with option 1.

Offline SteamBrains

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Re: MKII Carronade: cannonball or dragonbreath?
« Reply #10 on: May 10, 2017, 01:40:06 pm »
I think option 2 would fit the carronade better. That being said the cannonball sort of idea would work great for LJ and seems like a good course of action.

Offline SteamBrains

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Re: MKII Carronade: cannonball or dragonbreath?
« Reply #11 on: May 10, 2017, 01:40:51 pm »
So that's dragon breath for me!

Offline Montessoir

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Re: MKII Carronade: cannonball or dragonbreath?
« Reply #12 on: May 10, 2017, 01:56:27 pm »
I'm voting for cannon 1, I love me a cannon ball

Offline BlackenedPies

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Re: MKII Carronade: cannonball or dragonbreath?
« Reply #13 on: May 10, 2017, 04:42:11 pm »
I like option one with the description of being a slug. Scattershot effect is okay if it's longer range than standard carro

Offline Richard LeMoon

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Re: MKII Carronade: cannonball or dragonbreath?
« Reply #14 on: May 10, 2017, 05:28:14 pm »
Work is moving forward on the cannonball, so plan B may not be needed.