Author Topic: MKII Heavy Carronade testing candidate  (Read 1147 times)

Offline Richard LeMoon

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MKII Heavy Carronade testing candidate
« on: May 03, 2017, 12:05:32 am »
Possible testing stats for this weekend and past testing in this link.

https://trello.com/c/vg1ndrRX/34-carro-mkii

Some people want to stay at four shots, others want to move back to two. We are going to split the difference, and try out a three shot (per tester request). This presents some interesting ammo play. Opinions on stats are welcome. We will continue using the current Hellhound model and Lumberjack projectile for the foreseeable duration of these tests.

Offline Solidusbucket

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Re: MKII Heavy Carronade testing candidate
« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2017, 12:45:52 am »
I remember on the Discord that there was a discussion about changing the model to three barrels or having it two shots because of the gun model and overall a few individuals being concerned about the model of the gun and its reflection of two shots.

But, you load a different ammo and suddenly that aspect of the lore is out the window.

The Hwatcha, for example, benefits the most from burst. The overwhelming majority (if not, literally everyone) of people that use the gun (besides the unknowledgable - newbies) load burst. But, burst gives it 24 shots. The Hwatcha only has 20 rocket spots.

This same rule applies to the mortar, banshee, light flak (to an extent since it uses two magazines and those magazines don't change shape or size with different ammos) am I missing any?

I don't see the issue with the model misrepresenting the shots.

My point is to please not concern yourselves with the "lore" of the gun and the model.

Offline Richard LeMoon

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Re: MKII Heavy Carronade testing candidate
« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2017, 07:04:15 am »
The three barrels would be more to visually distinguish this from the Hellhound. It is pretty easy to know what you are facing if you are looking into 2 or 3 barrels. If these tests pan out (and it seems like they are) it will be getting a MKII makeover one way or the other. The picture and model suggestion was just for future note, as it is not something that will be worked on for a while. The main concern right now is stats and effect.

Offline Kira Wa Nai

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Re: MKII Heavy Carronade testing candidate
« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2017, 09:53:43 am »
Richard did some theorycrafting and found a new damage combination that might suit our intentions pretty well.

Direct damage from 100 Impact to 70 Shatter.
Secondary damage from 70 Shatter to 112 Impact.

This will change the behavior to break light guns with 1 direct hit, while taking 3 AOE hits. Hitting a component will no longer block Impact damage from hitting the hull.

This has been added as the second possible testing setup on Trello: https://trello.com/c/vg1ndrRX/34-carro-mkii

Offline GurasOguras

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Re: MKII Heavy Carronade testing candidate
« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2017, 12:03:31 pm »
Isn't impact damage good against every type of component and therefore overpowered? Looking into these stats remind me of initial heavy flak and flakfishes back when they could kill a ship alone.

Could you remund us the purpose of this gun and niche it should represent? Is it a kill weapon, disable weapon, support our what?
« Last Edit: May 03, 2017, 12:06:11 pm by GurasOguras »

Offline Naoura

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Re: MKII Heavy Carronade testing candidate
« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2017, 04:27:26 pm »
Guras, that is exactly why, initially, when I did the damage for Richard, I had it set at 80 for impact, due to it being effective against, most especialy, balloon and hull.

And the niche it's supposed to be is the end-all-be-all, apparently. Richard said he wanted a nub gun that cannot fail whatsoever. Hence also why I kept the damage so low, to keep it from being utterly abused by veteran players and then being nerfed into another Minotaur.

Offline Richard LeMoon

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Re: MKII Heavy Carronade testing candidate
« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2017, 06:27:41 pm »
Impact is 
   1.8 vs balloon
   1.5 vs hull
   0.8 vs armor
   0.6 vs guns/engines

First pre-test, as noted, was so weak that we asked for an immediate buff to velocity and doubling the clip before we even started the actual test. Going with the initial stats would have resulted in something less useful than a Minotaur. Even with the new 300m/s velocity and 4 shot clip, it was deemed mostly useless, with any other gun being better, maybe on par with Mino.

Test 2 saw massive improvements, adding another 50m/s to the velocity. This brought the usable arc over the gun muzzle for max range shots, though the gun is not that useful at max range due to the 2deg jitter. Heavy clip helps. The AOE Shatter was doubled, and 20 added to direct impact with tester feedback of wanting to break a light gun with one direct hit. This resulted in general damage that was almost where it should be, but feeling too low to use it over other heavy guns, but disable was far too high.

Test 3 is aimed at trying to keep the disable at a decent amount, while increasing Impact to a more, well, impactful level. Option A was as close as we could get with Impact/Shatter, but it is not quite right. Switching it to Shatter/Impact seems to provide a much better match to the "cannonball smash into things, cannonball keep going to smash other things" feel we were going for, rather than the original 'tickle me beachball' feel.

Offline SirNotlag

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Re: MKII Heavy Carronade testing candidate
« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2017, 06:49:47 pm »
My vote is on option B.

-as for the model I do not think the number of barrels is really important. I have issue with the weapons lack of lower visibility since its shots arc downward quite alot.
-dropping the clip to 3 shots might be interesting. I feel the damage per shot would have to increase to make up for it.