Author Topic: Ships locked / unlocked ?  (Read 1864 times)

Offline Ghroznak the Orc

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Ships locked / unlocked ?
« on: April 26, 2017, 05:13:39 am »
When I started GoI: Alliance some of the ships were listed as locked. Rather, there was a big "Unlock" button below the 3D image of the ship.

I just clicked that button and voila, the ship was available.

Is / was there a system of progression in the game where you had to unlock the different ships somehow to use them?

I know there is an unlock through the achievements to get the Faction specific ships like the Magnate and Shrike... but all the ships had an "Unlock" button under them at the start.

I had literally only played the game for 2 hours in total when I "unlocked" and could use all the ships (except faction ones).

Offline Schwalbe

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Re: Ships locked / unlocked ?
« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2017, 05:58:56 am »
The idea is that all tools (including ships) are available for players from the get-go. Some ships are initially locked to emphasise that they are NOT easy to handle and require more knowledge of how to handle them than low level player may probably have. However as you yourself have already noticed, the lock can be overriden to stay true to the first statement.

Offline Ghroznak the Orc

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Re: Ships locked / unlocked ?
« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2017, 03:38:22 am »
I see.

The idea is nice, though a bit confusing to a newer player like myself.

Rather than showing them as locked I think it would make more sense that the game just looks at your Helmsman level and then gives you a little warning if you pick a ship that is too hard.

E.g. if I'm level 2 helmsman trying to pick the Squid a little warning would come up saying "This ship is rated as a hard ship to fly. Are you sure you want to choose this ship?".

Anyways... just airing some thoughts from a new player perspective.

Thanks for clarifying :)

Offline Schwalbe

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Re: Ships locked / unlocked ?
« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2017, 03:50:45 am »
And that is sensible idea, which is why Muse will never have it implemented. :P

No problem.


By not easy to handle I mean: some require mastered use of pilot tools to handle properly (galleon), tactical prowess (spire), knowing how to crew it optimally and never in any other way (mobula), and then there is the cancer known as the squid, may it's creator be scorched in the bowels of Hell.

That is just my opinion though.

Offline MightyKeb

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Re: Ships locked / unlocked ?
« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2017, 05:21:11 am »
For any warning system based on the ship difficulty system to work, we must first return Spire to Hard and Goldfish to Easy. Not the other way around.

Offline Schwalbe

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Re: Ships locked / unlocked ?
« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2017, 05:51:28 am »
Wait.

WAIT.

WAIT WHAT. O_O


I haven't played in a while (Engineer Degree is a pain in the ass) and I may not be up-to-date with changes, but what the hell, how, when, why? This is pure bullshit on the first glance unless they buffed the everliving shit of the Spire...
« Last Edit: April 28, 2017, 05:54:51 am by Schwalbe »

Offline MightyKeb

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Re: Ships locked / unlocked ?
« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2017, 06:26:43 am »
Wait.

WAIT.

WAIT WHAT. O_O


I haven't played in a while (Engineer Degree is a pain in the ass) and I may not be up-to-date with changes, but what the hell, how, when, why? This is pure bullshit on the first glance unless they buffed the everliving shit of the Spire...

I have explained this several times, about half a year ago muse moved Spire to Easy category, and then later moved goldfish to Hard. Both were basically stealth changes. I only managed to confront ayetach about goldfish, and he explained that it was because fish was hard to get kills with. In hindsight it probably wasn't him that suggested it.


Both of these are wrong though. Spire is stupid hard vs good people and fish, while hard to get kills with, is a good way to teach people how to play a support ship.


Offline Schwalbe

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Re: Ships locked / unlocked ?
« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2017, 08:44:18 am »
I have explained this several times

You could've but i can't really afford following everything on forum since... months. Thus this is the first time I'm hearing about this, I didn't mean to upset you in any way man.

Offline Richard LeMoon

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Re: Ships locked / unlocked ?
« Reply #8 on: April 28, 2017, 04:34:49 pm »
The difficulties are set based on novice vs Bot in Novice Deathmatch and Alliance Normal (easy), not vs experienced crews.

Spire vs Bots is easy. Goldfish vs bots, not so easy. This switches with pvp and more experienced crews. Some thought needs to be be applied to this to make it more useful.

Offline Schwalbe

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Re: Ships locked / unlocked ?
« Reply #9 on: April 28, 2017, 04:55:34 pm »
Ok, but Richard. How we see it: Spire - difficult to crew and operate efficiently. Goldfish - very forgiving when it comes to mistakes. Getting kills... now, well, this is a different story, I can agree on that.

Offline MightyKeb

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Re: Ships locked / unlocked ?
« Reply #10 on: April 28, 2017, 05:02:13 pm »
The difficulties are set based on novice vs Bot in Novice Deathmatch and Alliance Normal (easy), not vs experienced crews.

Spire vs Bots is easy. Goldfish vs bots, not so easy. This switches with pvp and more experienced crews. Some thought needs to be be applied to this to make it more useful.

First of all, even amongst new players, barely anyone fires up bot deathmatch.

And secondly, difficulty levels affect Novice mode. Only ships marked with Easy difficulty can be picked in it. So you're letting Spire loose in it (which sounds OP because noone can shoot back at it enough to counter) and taking away Goldfish from novice, which was perfectly fine.

Offline Hoja Lateralus

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Re: Ships locked / unlocked ?
« Reply #11 on: May 01, 2017, 05:10:06 pm »
For any warning system based on the ship difficulty system to work, we must first return Spire to Hard and Goldfish to Easy. Not the other way around.

At this point I just think Muse is trying to fuck things up on purpose. That's a new level of stupid, even for them.
Also for me it's also news, first time hearing about it.

Offline Richard LeMoon

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Re: Ships locked / unlocked ?
« Reply #12 on: May 01, 2017, 07:21:12 pm »
Jump on Goldfish and a Spire in Normal Alliance with a nub crew. Give them no instructions. Then tell me which one is easy. Spire, fly at enemy and watch them die until you come under fire. Then you die. Pretty easy. Goldfish, fly at enemy... they are not dying. Why are they not dying? Because the Goldfish takes more skill and coordination between the use of front and side guns, and the use of tools. That is a lot harder.



Again, though, those should just be removed in favor of descriptions of ship ability, since no ship is 'easy' with a bad loadout.

Offline MightyKeb

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Re: Ships locked / unlocked ?
« Reply #13 on: May 01, 2017, 08:06:54 pm »
Jump on Goldfish and a Spire in Normal Alliance with a nub crew. Give them no instructions. Then tell me which one is easy. Spire, fly at enemy and watch them die until you come under fire. Then you die. Pretty easy. Goldfish, fly at enemy... they are not dying. Why are they not dying? Because the Goldfish takes more skill and coordination between the use of front and side guns, and the use of tools. That is a lot harder.



Again, though, those should just be removed in favor of descriptions of ship ability, since no ship is 'easy' with a bad loadout.

You're missing the point. Game considers Spire Easy and Goldfish hard in SKIRMISH. Not alliance.

I think one important thing to consider when you're rating these ships is to ask this very general question: "If I had a novice ally, what are the ships I'd feel most comfortable giving to him?". Pyra and Goldfish, and to a certain extent junker, fills this criteria in my eyes.


Offline Daft Loon

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Re: Ships locked / unlocked ?
« Reply #14 on: May 02, 2017, 01:07:37 am »
You could ask Muse for the win/loss (in normal PvP matches) stats for novice crews on each ship, I would be very surprised if the goldfish had a higher win rate than the spire and not at all surprised if the spire had the top win rate.

Calling goldfish hard instead of intermediate is a bit silly though, it doesn't really compare to the squid or mobula as far as difficulty goes.