Author Topic: Map revamp, some other small things  (Read 2210 times)

Offline Meibes

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Map revamp, some other small things
« on: May 08, 2013, 10:49:50 am »
Hi,

the map is one of the elements that's still bothering me, because it's hard to use as it is now. That's why i took all my non-existent graphic skills and done this:

this is just a sketch and personally i think some elements should be removed, that are still in this picture (read down below)



Q: Why does the user open the map?
A: to know the location of himself/teammates/enemys/capture points
->so that's why ships and capture points should be in the front/foreground (don't know what's the right word in english) because they are the important elements in this map (he should be able to spot his desire in under 1 second, otherwise the map setup is bad)
- i realised this through adding a transparent white layer at about 40%

Q: Have you ever met someone who used the quadrant-system?
A: No.
-> I think you could remove the quadrants (maybe only the labels because for distance calculating they are still useful) because noone uses them, if you spot an enemy he is marked on the map, so you don't need to tell your teammate "spotted the enemy 3D" (hehe)
- since i don't know if you really wanna keep this system, i changed it a little bit. the labels for each quadrant should be centered (because now it looks like you wanted to label the yellow lines) and be put outside of the actual map because they descripe the composition of the map and no actual map element
- i also replaced the yellow lines (yeah i know they're still there, you can blame me for my horrible graphic skills) with black crosses, i think they should suffice and you get rid of the kinda confusing yellow lines on the map, because they take away useful information and do confuse me a little, also this yellow doesn't fit into the color schema i think

Q (in CP's with 3vs3 or higher): Which of my teammates is headed in the wrong direction?
A: I don't know.
-> by now there is no way to find out which ship belongs to who and this is kinda sad
- i gave each ship a number that is always displayed under the symbol and added a Legend (every map should have one) at the bottom of the MISSION OBJECTIVES that displays the team, the number of the ship, the name of the ship and at last the type of the ship

Q: My achievements tell me to spot/destroys ships that are 1000m+ away, how do i know the distance?
A: If your lumberjack hits and doesn't do aoe damage, the distance is probably <300m, that's the only thing i can tell.
-> you have precise information about how fast a ship turns/goes up and down and the acceleration, but you can't tell if you can make it in time to capture the point, because you don't know the distance
-> your weapons have only limited range description (short, medium, long), i still don't know if gatling medium is the same as light flak medium, so it would be good to add meter information
- i added a Scale to the legend with the length of one quadrant and guessed the meters (probably wrong), but i do think that this Scale would be much better directly under the center of the map (where C is at the moment, only a little bit lower)
- adding these meter information would greatly improve the maps usage and take fights to a much higher level, because professional gunners would now be able to exactly tell when they can shoot the first bullet and are not wasting it

Q: Where is the north arrow in this map?
A: There is none, although you do have a compass.
-> this isn't that important, but old maps always do have a north arrow while in modern maps it is common that on the top of the map you can find the north - in ancient maps it was even the east because of religious reasons
- i added a simple north arrow at the top right corner, it doesn't have to look this way, i rather suppose to use a fancy/steampunk design, maybe using your logo or something

---not related to map

(not 100% sure about that, haven't done much sailing yet)
Q: Why does my ship move even when i do nothing at all?
A: Wind.
-> i don't know if there is a constant wind blowing or if it changes during gameplay
- if it is constant, you could add the wind direction to the map somewhere
- if it changes during gameplay, it would be great to have an instrument on the helm that displays the wind direction and maybe even the strength

Q: Why do we get a flag when we kill someone in deathmatch.
A: I have no idea.
-> flags are used in racing games or capture the flag modes, but why do you use this icon for kills?
- replace this symbol with a more adequate icon, e.g. the icon which is used for explosive damage

--forum related
i wasn't able to delete my old topic (wrong forum) or even edit it after a certain amount of time, could this be changed?

Thanks for reading, i tried to add as many grammar mistakes as i could, so feel free to find all x)

greetz
« Last Edit: May 08, 2013, 11:00:32 am by Meibes »

Offline Captain Smollett

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Re: Map revamp, some other small things
« Reply #1 on: May 08, 2013, 12:38:24 pm »
Well first of all, this is awesome and I salute thee. There really are a lot of really good ideas in here.

As far as using quadrants go, I actually use these quite a bit. Great for giving more precise locations when describing a possible location of an enemy or an intended local to travel to.

Regarding adding a scale to the legend with quadrant distances; can we please please has this?  This would elevate high level play immensely. Can you imagine a captain calling out range of a spotted ship, a gunner dialing in the range for his lumberjack and boom first shot hits!  Or a ship stealthily moving through clouds at a marked target opening fire exactly when it's in range?

Offline Redorio diVario

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Re: Map revamp, some other small things
« Reply #2 on: May 08, 2013, 02:34:19 pm »
Great idea. I already posted a similar idea about a map some days ago but it's nice to see that more people want map to be improved. And You did it in a great way, I hope this will be changed as You have showed us :D.

Quote
Q: Have you ever met someone who used the quadrant-system?
A: No.
The quadrant-system is a good idea IMHO. I just think that the crappy map discourage people from using it. But if it was more visible (like the lines more visible and the letters and number larger) it could become a very good thing for tactics :D.

Quote
Q: My achievements tell me to spot/destroys ships that are 1000m+ away, how do i know the distance?
A: If your lumberjack hits and doesn't do aoe damage, the distance is probably <300m, that's the only thing i can tell.
Why do I feel that it will be explained as "experience in game will let you know whether you are in range or not" ^^'

Quote
Q: Why does my ship move even when i do nothing at all?
A: Wind.
But have you already moved the ship? Remember that inertia exists in this game and if one the ship started to move it won't stop when you leave the steering wheel. But if not then well... I haven't noticed that ^^.
Quote
Q: Why do we get a flag when we kill someone in deathmatch.
A: I have no idea.
-> flags are used in racing games or capture the flag modes, but why do you use this icon for kills?
- replace this symbol with a more adequate icon, e.g. the icon which is used for explosive damage
Suddenly an idea came to my mind. Why don't give the RED and BLUE team their own coat of arms, logo or anything? Currently (from what I've seen. I haven't read the lore) it's just a fight between a RED and a BLUE team. Who are they? We know nothing about them or at least nothing about them in displayed to an average player. I bet there is some history behind them like different nations that are in conflict but why isn't it displayed in the game? Why BLUE team can't be called something like Empire and RED the Republic and instead of those flags we could see their coats of arms?

And again I hope the map will look better one day.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2013, 02:39:03 pm by Redorio diVario »

Offline Sgt. Spoon

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Re: Map revamp, some other small things
« Reply #3 on: May 08, 2013, 04:19:07 pm »
Suddenly an idea came to my mind. Why don't give the RED and BLUE team their own coat of arms, logo or anything? Currently (from what I've seen. I haven't read the lore) it's just a fight between a RED and a BLUE team. Who are they? We know nothing about them or at least nothing about them in displayed to an average player. I bet there is some history behind them like different nations that are in conflict but why isn't it displayed in the game? Why BLUE team can't be called something like Empire and RED the Republic and instead of those flags we could see their coats of arms?

Well actually the blue and red teams are made up of different factions and cities depending on the specific map. The fight in the Battle on the Dunes for example is a fight between the two neighboring cities of the Burren desert called Nalm and Sylka. Another example is the Northen Fjords where patrols of one of the larger factions called The Fjord Baronies battle against various pirates.

Offline Redorio diVario

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Re: Map revamp, some other small things
« Reply #4 on: May 09, 2013, 11:44:47 am »
Oh, yeah.... I see with so many different factions fighting over each map it would be hard to came up with symbols for every of them ^^'.

Offline Sgt. Spoon

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Re: Map revamp, some other small things
« Reply #5 on: May 09, 2013, 11:54:46 am »
Well, the bigger factions already have special symbols for them, like the Fjord Baronies for example have a Raven as their symbol, so it's not completely out of the question. Though I'm not sure if there's been specified exactly who fights who on each map.

Offline Meibes

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Re: Map revamp, some other small things
« Reply #6 on: May 09, 2013, 01:25:20 pm »
As far as using quadrants go, I actually use these quite a bit. Great for giving more precise locations when describing a possible location of an enemy or an intended local to travel to.

The quadrant-system is a good idea IMHO. I just think that the crappy map discourage people from using it. But if it was more visible (like the lines more visible and the letters and number larger) it could become a very good thing for tactics :D.

first of all: thanks ^^
well i have to admit, that i usually join the first game i find, so i haven't played much with professional players by now. after thinking a while i also think that quadrants can be useful, but there is still a small issue: quadrants use the same letters as capture points, which could lead to misunderstandings

I already posted a similar idea about a map some days ago but it's nice to see that more people want map to be improved.

i have to admit, that i didn't search for other map suggestions o.o it would be lovely to have one topic where all suggestions are gathered, i did something like this for the bug forum a few minutes ago, i hope it's useful ^^

But have you already moved the ship? Remember that inertia exists in this game and if one the ship started to move it won't stop when you leave the steering wheel. But if not then well... I haven't noticed that ^^.

well i heard many captains complaining about the wind (especially in Desert Scrap) so i thought there maybe some kind of wind, i do know about inertia ^^

Suddenly an idea came to my mind. Why don't give the RED and BLUE team their own coat of arms, logo or anything? Currently (from what I've seen. I haven't read the lore) it's just a fight between a RED and a BLUE team. Who are they? We know nothing about them or at least nothing about them in displayed to an average player. I bet there is some history behind them like different nations that are in conflict but why isn't it displayed in the game? Why BLUE team can't be called something like Empire and RED the Republic and instead of those flags we could see their coats of arms?

sounds like you're a great writer ^^

And again I hope the map will look better one day.

So do I ^^

Well, the bigger factions already have special symbols for them, like the Fjord Baronies for example have a Raven as their symbol, so it's not completely out of the question. Though I'm not sure if there's been specified exactly who fights who on each map.

I'd love to hear your opinion about my suggestions as well ^^

Offline Redorio diVario

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Re: Map revamp, some other small things
« Reply #7 on: May 09, 2013, 02:16:10 pm »
Quote
i have to admit, that i didn't search for other map suggestions o.o it would be lovely to have one topic where all suggestions are gathered, i did something like this for the bug forum a few minutes ago, i hope it's useful ^^
In fact yes, it would be great to have a topic for all the suggestions. I mean I don't know what mods and Muse think about it but I think it would be useful. Something like you did for the bugs, with categories and stuff :D.

Quote
well i heard many captains complaining about the wind (especially in Desert Scrap) so i thought there maybe some kind of wind, i do know about inertia ^^
OK, yesterday i finally noticed the wind and I must say it's also a bit irritating. It's hard to tell from where the wind is blowing. It would be nice to have a flag or something that would show the direction of the wind (but that's probably an idea for a new topic).
Quote
sounds like you're a great writer ^^
Nah, I just think that an original and complex world like GoI world shouldn't hide it's lore from the players. It should rather encourage them to find out more about it and use it as the game's advantage. The only place we can learn some facts about the world is during the loading screen but the map loads so quickly that it's hard to read more than just 3 sentences from it :/.

Offline Meibes

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Re: Map revamp, some other small things
« Reply #8 on: May 09, 2013, 02:56:20 pm »
In fact yes, it would be great to have a topic for all the suggestions. I mean I don't know what mods and Muse think about it but I think it would be useful. Something like you did for the bugs, with categories and stuff :D.

maybe trying to do that tomorrow o.o

Offline Captain Oakbeard

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Re: Map revamp, some other small things
« Reply #9 on: May 11, 2013, 09:22:50 pm »
My problem with some maps is that they're too cluttered. Specifically the "Duel at Dawn" map, which was far too cluttered AND had many fog banks. I'm fine with difficult terrain, it forces captains to think a little more situationally, but that map in particular is just frustrating to play on. I would suggest that for maps that are as cluttered as "Duel at Dawn" there should at least be no fog. The terrain is difficult enough.

Now, I do have a problem with the invisible walls, but to be fair I can't think of a way to fix that, so ignore that gripe. I would however suggest larger maps. Not much larger, but at the moment some of them feel just a smidge too small.

Offline N-Sunderland

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Re: Map revamp, some other small things
« Reply #10 on: May 11, 2013, 09:29:57 pm »
There being lots of obstacles and fog make it a map requiring a lot of skill to fly on. That's the whole point. If you want an easier map, you might as well play on Dunes. The game wouldn't be any fun if there weren't any difficult maps.

Offline Mattilald Anguisad

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Re: Map revamp, some other small things
« Reply #11 on: May 12, 2013, 08:14:08 am »
While players that have ben playing long enough to know approximate range numbers of speciffic weapons (Banshee 810, Echidna Light Flak 790, Manticore 1275, Artemis 1250 for example) new players don't. Old weapon stats showed details like this (allong with nominal damage by type and a few other).

As for map orientation: unless stated otherwise north on all (modern) maps is on top of them map. Unless map orientation is off, maps generally don't have orientation on them (nowdays).

As for sale being displayed on the map - I'm against it. I think it should remaim for players to have to guess distance by their experience. It's one of the thinkg that keeps both lght and heavy mortar from being utterly and completely OP. If we make everything too spelt out and obvious we risk taking the charm out of the game. Oldschool vs newschool. Newschool is Newerwinter (MMO from Cryptic) witch litteraly draws you ans imaginary line on the ground where you should go - and it feels like the developer thinks I'm retarded. If the add a separate casual mode or tournament mode then range helpers of one form or another could be implemented, but I want there to be a way to be able to force both teams to use the harder dificulty if the match maker wanted to, or alternatively allow both teams to use the easier way of doing things.

As for object visibilits and naming: I think displaying ally ship names and making them more contrasted from the map is a great idea, I think the opposing them's ship names should remain hidden.

Wind: Wind gauge has allready been requested/suggested (would probably be a pilot tool). --again not the fan of wind direction being displayed on the map (dunes has no winds, scrap has the rolling sandstorm that is super obvious and you want to get out of asap, duel has I think a norht-northeasterly wind all over the map, watter hazard & refinery have localised winds if I remember correctly)

TL;DR:
--objects in the foreground on the map: YES
--keep the quadrants
--ally ship names can be on map, enemy ship names not
--no wind directions on map, yes for Wind Gauge, pilot tool
--no range scale on the map (outside casual game mode)
--detailed ship and weapon stats like they were before should be written in the ingame manual or somwhere ingame (if nowhere else-old players know those stats probably by hear newer players don't)

Cheers