Author Topic: Shoot better!  (Read 9093 times)

Offline JaceBoojah

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Shoot better!
« on: May 06, 2013, 02:39:18 am »
There is a limit to how alive an engineer can keep a ship.
There is a limit to how many shots you can hit.
There is no limit to what a captain can do.

Captains skill - engineers screw ups - missed shots = ship's effectiveness.

All i really want is to know that when I point a gat/flak at a ship that it will die. Is that too much to ask?
I find myself disappointed with damage output more than my incoming damage protection.

Which do you worry about most? Captains skill, gunning accuracy, or damage protection?

Offline Letus

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Re: Shoot better!
« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2013, 03:55:51 am »
Cohesion.
When I say go engineer, you go engineer.

on a random side note...trying to currently figure a way to use Tribes 2 to explain aiming...
mainly because the whole "having to aim from behind while turning" basically comes second nature when doing a lateral jet/ski onto a target from afar with any of those guns in that game.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2013, 04:03:36 am by Letus »

Offline Lord Dick Tim

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Re: Shoot better!
« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2013, 04:49:57 am »
I'm with Letus, Definately cohesion.  The other one would be spatial awareness, I have had far to many experienced gunners miss shots because their so use to having to do the ship spotting for the captain.
Generally when I say get on a gun, it's because I'm going to point the ships weapons at a target.  Sometimes that window of opportunity is incredibly small, I've been known to say, "well, you lost your chance powder monkey.  That shot needed to count, better luck next time."
For me that's gotta be second to cohesion, being ready to take the shot, when I give you that window to take it.

Offline Letus

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Re: Shoot better!
« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2013, 05:11:53 am »
I'm with Letus, Definately cohesion.  The other one would be spatial awareness, I have had far to many experienced gunners miss shots because their so use to having to do the ship spotting for the captain.
Generally when I say get on a gun, it's because I'm going to point the ships weapons at a target.  Sometimes that window of opportunity is incredibly small, I've been known to say, "well, you lost your chance powder monkey.  That shot needed to count, better luck next time."
For me that's gotta be second to cohesion, being ready to take the shot, when I give you that window to take it.

Though with gunning, I find up having to spot long distances for myself more.
When it comes to close range...I don't bother.  I take the shot.  Gotten to the point where if I see the target, I generally know where to shoot.
...
except for maybe the Typhoon...haven't quite got the rehang of that...

But like...super long range distances as a gunner, and our wing ship is flying INTO DEATH...the least they can do is spot one ship hiding behind the dustclouds before they die...wind up saying many times "If they're going to get themselves killed, they could at least spot for me."

One spot...then I can pull up a map and range....

Othertimes, and mostly when on a lumberjack, I say "Hey, I can hit them from here."  And many times....the captain won't believe me.  Was on a lumberjack Galleon against pretty much Dual Merc Pyramids (I think they think they could outsnipe me with those,) And I knew they had an option of two choices: foreward and back.  I could see them.  I told the captain I can hit them...

...captain turns the Galleon and goes straight into them.  Getting our hull hammered, and close enough for them to easily snipe my guns when he turns his broadsides.  Wasn't until after repairing the lumberjack about...five times in a row (they got our engines, so we were stuck pointed at them) and I was able to fire off three shots, lesmok.  roughly four seconds later, you see the hitmarks....that's when he finally stopped charging and just kept letting the pyramids back off....

Granted we won, but that lack of cohesion...it really ruined that game in my opinion.

Offline Keon

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Re: Shoot better!
« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2013, 10:18:30 am »
Cohesion.
When I say go engineer, you go engineer.

on a random side note...trying to currently figure a way to use Tribes 2 to explain aiming...
mainly because the whole "having to aim from behind while turning" basically comes second nature when doing a lateral jet/ski onto a target from afar with any of those guns in that game.

And I use a blinkfuser.

Offline Helmic

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Re: Shoot better!
« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2013, 10:41:52 am »
Cohesion.
When I say go engineer, you go engineer.

Pretty much.  An all-pilot team that communicates and cooperates is going to win versus just about any other ship that isn't working together.  I just don't bother with games like that anymore, if someone starts arguing about wanting to stay on the wrong gun or refuses to take an appropriate loadout or refuses to repair because htey're the gunner and its not their job then they're on their own.  You just can't win without all four people on a ship pulling their weight.

Aside from that obvious fact, though, pilot skill's probably the most significant part of any ship.  Nothing else the crew does will matter if the guns aren't pointed at the enemy and the ship is sitting on an enemy Galleon's broadside.  Bad gunners are pretty frustrating too, but you can make up for them somewhat with ramming and lots of "encouragement" until they finally get on the right gun and stay there.  It's bad engineers that drive me nuts, there's no avoiding all enemy fire and an inattentive engineer will just completely wreck the pilot's ability to do anything.  You can't ram without a hull, the gunners can't get in arc without the engines and balloon, someone else will have to do the engineer's job meaning firepower is being sacrificed... it's why I usually have the highest level player go main engineer in pickup games.

Offline Captain Smollett

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Re: Shoot better!
« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2013, 10:55:46 am »
I think I'm in agreement.

I can get the worst gunners in the world to get a kill with a gat/flak and a level 1 engineer to keep the ship relatively repaired as long as they listen. I can tell them where to aim, which target to shoot and when to time their shots and if it still isn't working I'll just fly so close to the enemy's hull that they can't possibly do anything but hit it.  But if the crew's not listening, and the chaingunner is at the balloon, the flak gunner is on the flare and the engineer is sightseeing on the point of your Pyra, than yeah, you're screwed. I think that's what Jace is talking about, because that's pretty much what I think of when I think of bad gunners, and it happens more often than I care to talk about.

Offline HamsterIV

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Re: Shoot better!
« Reply #7 on: May 06, 2013, 11:59:03 am »
There is a limit to how many clever maneuvers a captain can pull off. Especially after he has burned his balloon and engines with pilot items. If I were to come up with an algorithem for ship effectiveness it would be:

Ship Effectiveness = captain piloting + captain tactical + engineer prioritization + engineer tool swapping + gunner accuracy + gunner equipment knowledge + 3*inter crew communication;

Offline FightBoyVash

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Re: Shoot better!
« Reply #8 on: May 06, 2013, 02:11:44 pm »
All i really want is to know that when I point a gat/flak at a ship that it will die.

Point taken, will shoot better.

Offline Sentinel Guy

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Re: Shoot better!
« Reply #9 on: May 28, 2013, 12:08:26 pm »
Hi all, I'm pretty new to the game so apologies if any of you got stuck with me on the crew (I remember some of you from in game).  One thing I have noticed as a gunner is that if the captain sucks you die.  I have lost count of the times I have been stuck unable to fire because the captain won't inch the ship over to one side slightly.  Man that's frustrating,  especially when you ask them and they don't move. Then they ram us right into the enemy wolfpack and get our engines blasted up so we are sitting ducks.

Offline Surette

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Re: Shoot better!
« Reply #10 on: May 28, 2013, 04:19:27 pm »
Well yes, naturally if the captain sucks you're not going to be able to do much. That's not unique to captains, though; the same is also true if the engineers or gunners suck. If you can't repair efficiently you're definitely going to die, and if you can't shoot the enemy faster or more accurately than they can shoot you, you're also going to die.

Offline Honeybadger

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Re: Shoot better!
« Reply #11 on: May 28, 2013, 07:00:36 pm »
Not everyone can be as Honeybadgering as most of the people in this thread, there is a side that says; yes, you have to tell the new players what to do, but you can't expect them to start leading their shots and shooting lumberjacks crossmap like that.

But yeah, shoot fucking better.

Offline Skrimskraw

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Re: Shoot better!
« Reply #12 on: May 29, 2013, 06:41:41 pm »
when I fly I need my gunners to hit, nothing more annoying than when a gunner misses a vital shot, or cant even hit at all

Offline TracyJackson

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Re: Shoot better!
« Reply #13 on: June 03, 2013, 02:16:13 am »
I suppose damage protection...a ship can't fly if it is on the brink of destruction. Even with a good pilot or gunner, you are still gonna get damaged...although the extent of damage does depend on how good the flying is and/or the damaging of other ships is. I like being an Engineer as my role is crucial to the game, one mistimed fix can cause an engine to go bust or balloon to go down...and then you'd need to start over.

Offline Plasmarobo

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Re: Shoot better!
« Reply #14 on: June 03, 2013, 09:14:33 am »
Honestly, sometimes I love having a new crew.
If they are willing to listen to me, it feels great when we get kills.

But on the listening thing, following the theme of cohesion, I really dislike silence.
I know some people simply don't have mics, and it's awkward to use text chat.

But get a mic. And talk to me. You don't have to be my friend but give me feedback.
I rarely gun. I often forget where the effect-cones of the weapons are. To that end, it's hard to know if they are all able to shoot effectively. Easier with some ships than others.

I also like to co-opt other people into extending my situtational awareness.
Not always easy to keep guns pointed at the target and watch the guy who thinks he's sneaking up on you. Cardinal directions are super useful!