Author Topic: #CommunityPatch – Squid Balance  (Read 1033 times)

Offline BlackenedPies

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#CommunityPatch – Squid Balance
« on: January 26, 2017, 12:16:18 pm »
The Squid was recently changed in patch 1.4.9 to make it less tanky, reducing hull to 450 from 950 and increasing armor from 230 to 335. Some players feel this was too much and a significant nerf to squid. A common request is to increase turning acceleration, making it nimbler with its 4 light engines, and less reliant on Phoenix Claw

What values should be changed on squid? These will be tested this week Friday 5pm and Saturday at 12

Original: 230 armor, 950 hull, 20 turning accel
Current: 335 armor, 450 hull, 20 turning accel

My opinion is adding +100 hull (550) and increasing turning accel to 25 m/s2

Offline Solidusbucket

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Re: #CommunityPatch – Squid Balance
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2017, 12:22:02 pm »
I'm fine with the movement of the squid.

I did the testing for the change and my opinion was that it should take a full clip of armed flak to kill it. I meant burst flak but I don't think I said that part.

How much health is that?

I was fine with the armor change.

Offline BlackenedPies

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Re: #CommunityPatch – Squid Balance
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2017, 12:35:44 pm »
I did the testing for the change and my opinion was that it should take a full clip of armed flak to kill it. I meant burst flak but I don't think I said that part.

How much health is that?

672 regular, 896 burst

Offline Solidusbucket

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Re: #CommunityPatch – Squid Balance
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2017, 12:48:59 pm »
okay, that sounds about right then.

My whole thought is that the squid should get three chances.

Before the change it had those three chances with a good pilot and not too dire circumstances, but it still sucked with the armor cause it wasn't forgiving. Now the armor is forgiving but even a good pilot really only gets two chances now.

Its like, armor break, run, armor break, (maybe) run but more than likely dead.

Three chances. So, I guess 850 hp would do that?

Also, for turning, I would say make the default turning what it is now with stamina.

Sorry, I can't provide numbers. Not really my thing. I just go off what I see / feel and know.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2017, 01:04:09 pm by Solidusbucket »

Offline BlackenedPies

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Re: #CommunityPatch – Squid Balance
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2017, 02:02:25 pm »
Three chances. So, I guess 850 hp would do that?

Also, for turning, I would say make the default turning what it is now with stamina.

Sorry, I can't provide numbers. Not really my thing. I just go off what I see / feel and know.

850 would be too high IMO due to the higher armor value. Armor was increased by 46% and hull reduced 53% from the original values

Turning speeds with stamina or Phoenix Claw are difficult to calculate (atleast for me) because they use the Thrust and Drag variables. A value of 25 m/s2 (from 20) may be a bit lower than stamina use

Offline Dementio

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Re: #CommunityPatch – Squid Balance
« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2017, 09:55:27 pm »
Current: 335 armor, 450 hull, 20 turning accel

My opinion is adding +100 hull (550) and increasing turning accel to 25 m/s2

I am ok with this suggestions, with more turning the Squid could potentially make more reliable use of its aft gun, but I worry that it will give the Squid an even bigger edge against a lot of ships. It is fast enough to reliable dodge a Hwachafish and generally outmanouver four out of seven ships, five if you count vertically dodging the Junker everytime it comes close to losing armor.

The only time I have seen Squids struggle is against Blenderfish or when you consistently load (Lesmok) Gatling and Banshee into their armor before they even engage. Keeping them away from the engagement while hoping your ally can 1v1 the other guy. Turning away for even a second in most ships is not worth it either, because a Squid can easily close on most ships from extreme distances and outmanouver their gun arcs once the ships are finished turning. And if you let a Squid get behind you, you better kill its ally, because once a Squid is behind another ship, which ship can do anything to stop it? A Junker perhaps, but slap an Artemis on that Squid and the easily disabled Junker will stop moving too.

More turning speed also means an easier time keeping front and side guns into arc, then turn around and run off even quicker than now. It can be extremely difficult to fight off a well piloted Squid, because a Gatling and Banshee on a Squid is just as strong as on any other ship. I would want to balance more turning with less forward or less vertical acceleration. Or maybe a minimal decrease in forward acceleration and increasing armor just a little bit so it takes 6 hits to rebuild, making it much more risky when armor gets destroyed.

I lied though, there is one other time I have seen Squids struggle. It is when you throw in two Squids into a 2v2 or it is a disable Squid with another disable ally. But that is because they either lose the ability to quickly kill ships if they don't have a one-clip armor destruction Gatling or have too low armor and hull to effectively stay in the firing arcs of either one of the enemy team's ships which probably feature Gatling and Banshee. But a single Gatling Squid paired with anything not a Squid is, and always was, extremely deadly and difficult to handle when well coordinated and piloted, which should be the definition of competitive Guns of Icarus. So I do not want to see straight buffs for it. Or to make it clear how good the Squid is: Back when the Mobula had its op vertical stats, the Squid was the one ship that could counter it.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2017, 09:58:28 pm by Dementio »